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Reading this again darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 14/04/2017 04:30:08 AM

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Egwene is Worst Ever upon reread- I think the first time I read her stuff, it was all "Oh, she's the plucky girl who has magic and spunk, awesome!"

And upon reread, I just get annoyed at how much of a bitch she is to her friends.




Honestly, I'd take Egwene in a fight over any of the other women in the series ... she may have had her flaws as a person, but she was relentless in her focus and kicked anyone's ass who stood in the way. #Respect

I've never really seen why people think she's such a bitch, especially given how horrible other women light-side characters are in the series:

Tuon, bow to me or die
Faile, Perrin is my personal possession
Elaida, straight up crazy
Alanna, force-bond even though everyone thinks that rape
Siuan, straight up control freak
Cadsuane, haggard, nasty bully
Romanda, vindictive and pretty stupid
Lelaine, manipulative as hell

All of these women are WAY bigger bitches for WAY less reason than Egwene. Elayne is an entitled brat who I believe the only reason everyone gives the "pass" to about her bitchiness is because she's a fairytale princess ... Egwene isn't 1/10 as bitchy but because she's a village girl she gets heaps of shit for having ambition. She literally sacrificed her life while Elayne was fretting about how much respect she should be getting from Perrin. Min, Aviendha, Nynaeve, and Moiraine weren't exactly sweet little ladies either ... you know all those bitches would shank you if you crossed them!

In all fairness I doubt I would be friends with Egwene in real life, but I know many women who are driven in similar ways and I respect them even if I don't always like them a lot.


... No, they're not particularly. Most of them anyway.


Tuon... Is a Seanchan noble. They don't exactly raise them to be "cuddly". More like "order minded Sith" then anything. The mere fact that she is capable of expressing compassion and some level friendship lends most to give her something of a pass.

Faile... Is a bitch. Some of it is her culture, but a lot of it is just... She is a bitch. But not nearly as big a one as Egwene.

Elaida is Elaida... Only better then Egwene in the sense that the narrative and the people around her don't just ignore it.

Alanna... Why is she even on this list? Who in the world likes Alanna?

Siuan... And yet, not even within miles of as bad as Egwene.

Cadsuane, Romanda, Lelaine... Again, you keep listing women who own their bitchiness. Who understand the concept of it. Who see it as something that needs be regardless. Egwene... Doesn't even GET it half the time.

Elayne. Elayne is again a noble. She was brought up as one. It doesn't just erase her every wrong, but it does give context to the reader. Context that lets them look past it to she the kind and caring person that she is.


Egwene... Egwene isn't a "kind and caring person". That alone might not amount to much, but... She is from the Two Rivers. A land seemly made up of 70% moral paragons and heroic types. She... She barely even seems to understand the concept of "friend". She THINKS she does, but... She doesn't. She really, really doesn't. The woman is a bit messed up in the head, and worse of all... Almost no one, herself included naturally, ever freaking notices it!

Off the top of my head only Rand... Who doesn't care. Just thanks his lucky stars they aren't a couple anymore, and plans his entire save the world plan around it, and yet... Still doesn't actually CARE that she is as she is.

It would indeed be as if half of the good guys saw freaking Elaida as one of their closest personal friends, and got sad that she died at the end.


A few questions ... how is Egwene a bigger bitch than:

Faile: what did Egwene do that can compare to Faile manipulating Loyal into taking her into the Ways? She was willing to risk the lives of Perrins family and every single person in the Two Rivers just to win an argument. At every turn she lies and manipulates Perrin and finds it funny that she's doing it. Murdering Masema in cold blood (justified or not) and lying straight to Perrins face about it. This woman abandoned her duty to defend the world from the Blight when she chose to run off and become a Hunter of the Horn and she subsequently abandoned that oath to follow Perrin.

Siuan: Literally lied and manipulated every Aes Sedai in the rebel camp to get her vengeance on Elaida, in and of itself that doesn't seem all that bad until you stop to think she KNOWS that what she is doing is materially harming the Lights capabilities and keeping hundreds of Channelers at odds with the DR and is essentially betraying her own lifelong cause to find and Shepard the DR

Tuon: seriously you think she's compassionate? This is the woman who knows damn well that she has enslaved thousands of other women for an ability she herself possesses and sits ideally by while thousands die in the name of her own power. The fact that she's not actually a sociopath and has feelings for a man doesn't make her a good person, it simply makes her human.

Elayne: Honestly, Elayne is endearing only because she is a Princess. But she's dumb as a stump most of the time, making decisions based 100% on how she's feeling in the moment with no regard to long term consequences of her actions. She runs away twice, even after she has been informed of the consequences of her actions. She risked starting a war between the Tower and Andor. She ignores her duty to retake the Throne for months after learning of her mothers "fate" causing civil war to linger in Andor, how many deaths can be laid at her feet for not returning to Andor earlier? Sure you can say the Rebels kept her from it and that would be partially true, but ultimately she chose to not fight them in this because it suited her desires.

Cadsuane/Lelaine/Romanda: you claim it's okay because they "owned their bitichiness" ... how does Egwene not own hers? Romanda and Lelaine are playing at politics and acting as though nothing has changed in the world despite the obvious evidence to the contrary. Cadsuane is a straight up bully who walks around with her arsenal of OP equipment which makes her essentially untouchable. She doesn't even respect of follow the cultural rules of her AS world. Sure those customs are ridiculous to all outsiders, but she's still the first person to dismiss Nynaeve's rank in the hierarchy based totally on keeping with rules spthat she herself never followed. Hypocracy at its finest.

Alanna: I rather liked Alanna, she actually has a fine character; noble, honest and accountable to her own mistakes. Then she raped Rand with her bond. Even despite that Alanna continues to follow the moral code of her people and the Aes Sedai by treating Rand as her true Warder and doing everything in her power to protect him, even unto her death.

Adelorna (and the other Tower Ajah Heads): abandoned Elaida to a life of slavery purely out of convenience. They decided Egwene was the better person to support so they bailed on the woman they supported for months as Amyrlin. Potentially this was an impossible task, but one would think the AS would demand the return of their own during the LB negotiations.

Egwene: was mean to Nynaeve and followed her path so she could gain the skills necessary to do her part to fight the shadow. She even ensured that her friends had a way to stay in communication with her and taught them what they could learn as she learned it (at great risk to her own continuing education). She went against AS principles to fight by Rands side in Cairhien and helped him manipulate the Tower AS whenever she could. So a minute of indulgeance in taking Nynaeve down a peg or two doesn't seem all that bitchy to me, certainly not nice, but people make way to much of a handful of these actions of the face of her personal sacrifices to save the universe from destruction.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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