Seriously? You are going to continue to insist that noting can be proven by the fact that shields used by Forsaken women against men and women are just called walls, exactly the word used to describe shields by Aes Sedai? Nothing?

You stated:

Doesn't the fact that Lanfear's shield for Rand, and Moghdien's shield for Nynaeve, and Rand's shield for Egwene are all called walls disproved that "shields for women would need to be more flexible"?

Precisely. But this is exactly what you said would be the case, so I'm at a loss as to why you also state the quotes prove nothing.

But that was not what you contended. You said that Forsaken must weave shields like this on women, and shields like walls on men. I only quoted to show you that that was simply not the case. Barring Berowin, we have never seen a flexible shield. But we HAVE seen inflexible ones from the Forsaken, used against both women AND men. We've seen a Forsaken (though this was Brandon's writing, so grain of salt here) shield both a man and a woman at the same time, and make no distinction about the weaves.

AND we know that the True Power, entirely alien and different from both Saidin AND saidar, can also be blocked by a One Power shield, straight from Jordan's mouth.

Which is why I've been arguing that there's plenty of evidence to show that how saidin flows into men and saidar into women doesn't mean the optimal shields need to be different.

But what is the basis, in the text, that such a distinction is known to the Forsaken? THAT is what I've been arguing.

Separately, I would also argue that as far as I can tell, nothing about Berowin's shield seems female-specific. I suspect a man would find it hard to break a flexible shield too. According to Berowin's entry in the Companion:

The very point of her shield seems to be that even when under the heavy pressure of a much stronger channeler's power, the shield just bends instead of shattering. When Rand breaks the Aes Sedai shield:

This is precisely what Berowin's shield doesn't do, so it seems quite easy for me to see that her shield would be effective on men too. She seemed to feel no effort at holding Nynaeve, who is only 10 levels below Rand. Maybe it would be a little harder for Berowin to hold Rand, who knows, but that would be a function of his strength, I think, not about how saidin behaves differently from saidar.

Those so many examples, every one, has someone commenting on the difference. Be it Healing, or Compulsion, the superiority of the Forsaken's weave is very clearly mentioned. But several Forsaken have woven shields where channelers from this Age could see them, and yet not ONE comments on the difference?

None of this means they did not have a Talent for shileding. But I've seen nothing that says they use a different shield for a man than they would a woman, and quite a bit that says otherwise.

Then can you explain to me why you said "walls can be made out of many different materials"?

Is there a modern Aes Sedai who's not Nynaeve yet has strengths similar to Graendal and Lanfear? Beyond that, we just have no instances of women shielding men of their strength range at all, so whether they would struggle more than the Forsaken would or not is completely unknown.

Look I have no issue with the idea that Lanfear is more skilled than Verin or Alanna. My problem is you saying that this means Lanfear uses a whole other kind of shield, specifically keyed to men.

Shielding is something we KNOW is very variable. Nynaeve is unable to shield Elayne in one book, then shields Talaan just fine. Was she using a different shield? And yes, I know Nynaeve is not a Forsaken, but my point is that despite several instances of Forsaken shields being used in front of modern channelers, no one comments on how theirs are different. Nynaeve, in fact, specifically says Moghedien was trying to cut her off in the same way, referring to her own shield.

But I have addressed that quote, not dismissed it. Apart from the fact tha Aviendha is someone who was new, we have a direct quote from Elza which gives the lie to Aviendha's quote. If you have some quote that shows that the ones I've provided can be interpreted differently, I'm happy to discuss it, but all you've done is consistently say they mean nothing!

These two points are addressed head on by the fact that Berowin has a Talent for shielding. She's like Androl with Gateways. This doesn't mean people who don't succeed like she does are doing it wrong!

It's not that difficult to realize that there are more effective ways to Shield someone, even someone massively stronger than you are, than used by modern Aes Sedai. It's just as obvious that the standard shields Aes Sedai teach are less effective than the shields used by Berowyn, Lanfear or Graendal. It seems likely that Moghedien's shield on Liandrin was probably a more effective shield as well, admittedly that is an assumption.

To counter this, we have:

1) Nynaeve WAS able to shield someone of her own strength, Talaan, and vice versa. Same with Moghedien.

2) Moiraine, at 6-7 levels below Merean, thought there was a chance her shield could land, and used it. Even when it didn't land, Moiraine tried again. Merean, already holding two people in flows of Air, could, according to Moiraine, shield Moiraine who was drawing as much as she could.

3) Egwene, who we know uses the exact same shielding weave Nynaeve does, had no issues shielding Sheriam, who is 6 levels weaker than her (so the same-ish as the Nynaeve-Elayne instance).

4) Ispan and Falion, exactly the same strength as Verin+Alanna, were able to shield and hold Nynaeve.

5) Nynaeve, while fighting Moghedien's shield, says it was the same as hers.

My point is, even within Aes Sedai, and women who must be using Aes Sedai shielding weaves, we see quite a lot of variation in shield placing. If you want to say Lanfear, Moghedien and Graendal have shielding Talents, I have no issue with that. But you're saying they weave a different shield, for which there's no evidence.

Berowin's shield is specifically called out as very different. It bends and flexes, and is not like a wall at all. Moghedien and Lanfear, at least, do not make such shields at all.

But there are many wards since there are many things to do. And if a ward is distinct, or the weave for anything is distinct, RJ is quite good at having channelers point it out. Can you name one instance of a weave being different, yet never being noted in the books despite them not being inverted/reversed?

And could you explain why Nynaeve would not notice any difference in Moghedien's weaving, and go so far as to say she was trying to shield Nynaeve in the same way Nynaeve was trying to shield her?

Lastly, shielding seems like the last thing that would have been lost during the Breaking. It was the most fundamental weave for survival known to women of those times. I'm hugely skeptical there was a period where women forgot to shield, then had to reinvent it from scratch.