Re: Why not? - Edit 1
Before modification by Sidious at 03/10/2009 05:09:07 PM
The concept is called empathy. You should try it sometime...
Thanks for the offer, but I'll keep my empathy for real people, or at least for the main characters who are more than one line in a conversation between Suroth and Semirhage.
And no, I did not cry. But I did get where RJ was coming from. You don't have to see blood and gore to appreciate the horror of a thousand deaths unless you have an emotional range and imagination that can be fit in a teaspoon.
Or you just need to get a grip and stop being dominated by emotions and focus on the main character and his quest to save the whole Wheel of Time.
Name a few? Cairhein? That was Asmodean. Andor? That was Rahvin. Arad Doman and Tarabon? That's Ishy, Moghedien and Graendal. The Tower? That's Mesaana. The Aiel? Asmodean again.
Whatever chaos Rand bings is being exacerbated by the Forsaken. It is called "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule".
Whatever chaos Rand bings is being exacerbated by the Forsaken. It is called "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule".
But the Tower isn't Mesaana - the Black ajah pushed ahead with that long before she arrived, and she's contributed little. Moghedien did nothing in Tarabon except send her people off on missions which results in almost nothing. What has Graendal done in Arad Doman that is so terrible? Elayne clearly has no problem with Andor now that she's the queen - it's not like she's weeping about how he ruined the place.
So, let's get this right. It is not in facts that we are dealing here but emotions. You don't really care about the Forsaken's competence, you care about the emotional response their actions generate. How can you claim to be rational about this then?
Because fantasy is about the main characters and their journey through the series, and how they are affected. It's not about distant tragedies with no emotional connection to the reader.
It'd be fair if you said that the Forsaken's atrocities leave you cold. I think differently, but that's a matter of perspective. But when we discuss competence, it is a matter of facts and numbers, which you must agree are on the Forsaken's side.
Almost none of the Forsaken's domains are in chaos or anarchy... Be'lal in Tear, Sammael in Ilian, Rahvin in Andor... all are almost exactly the same. Semirhage is a success, and I would say Mesaana too only because of the contained zoo she lives in which makes it so easy to manipulate. How did Aran'gar really affect Salidar? How did Osan'gar affect the Ash'aman... they are all two star efforts at best.
Causing serious trouble is possible when they are not kept busy infighting. You did see that I mentioned that right?
I saw.
So the Forsaken are incompetent because the Light will eventually overcome the hurdles and unify to fight them? You do realize that but for those hurdles, the Shadow could have been wiped out by now?
So you think the Forsaken are competent. Not even the Forsaken think they're competent.
I'm still a little confused. Is there a rule that someone should be blamed for not killing the major protagonists? Because that is certainly not the goal of the Forsaken! They have been, till recently, told nothing about killing these people.
You're right... the antagonists clearly have no unsaid destiny regarding the protagonists. You make as if they move along two separate plot threads and don't even interact.
Again! I cannot believe that you missed the significance of Moridin playing Sha'ra. Spreadin chaos is the main job, not killing the Dragon. For god's sake, the prologue to tGS has a conversation that proves exactly that!
The goal is to break the Wheel of Time dammit. Moridin also wants the ta'veren dead, and said in WH that it would be fine if the Forsaken killed Rand if he tried to cleanse the taint. I don't deny that spreading chaos is a goal... but it's a distant second IMO to killing Rand. That's also in Prologue according to Graendal!
The goal is to eventually either turn or kill the Dragon, but for now, with the Wheel protecting him overtime, that is not an option at all.
Well that's all I'm saying.
And Moghedien is your gold standard of Forsaken competence?
Yeah how dare I mention the Forsaken as examples of Forsaken who are going after the girls. At least send me a list citing which of the thirteen you approve of so I can use those instead.
As for making them damane, that is not killing them. And that they did not end up damane did not change the fact that this incident drove yet another wedge between two factions of the Light.
I know it's not killing them... it's disposing of them. Demandred is happy just severing Rand - they merely have to dispose of the protagonists.