Active Users:858 Time:15/11/2024 02:30:50 PM
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? Cannoli Send a noteboard - 07/01/2016 12:24:28 AM


With regard to the rescue mission, I think most people got shocked over his willingness to "deal with the Dark One" to get Faile free. He did initially consider the Seanchan as bad as the Shadow, even if readers didn't. Perrin thought that saving his wife was more important than the Last Battle and never even saw anything illogical in that!
He did! That's why he kept making that comparison. He knew it was disproportionate and unreasonable, but that was how he felt. As far as a hyperbolic expression of feelings, he should only be held at fault for it if he actually DID anything like that. Which he didn't.
But of course, I guess that's what Perrin is all about. He did constantly moan about wanting to be a simple blacksmith, not wanting to lead anyone, not wanting to have anything to do with the wolves, not accepting his ta'veren nature and larger role in the Pattern.. Eventually, his small-mindedness lead to such perverse outcomes as the WC trial, where Perrin again valued his own moral comfort as high as the salvation of whole mankind. Even Mat got over his initial slackerness, but for Perrin it took the whole series to man up.
Perrin manned up from the beginning. His deal was that he did what he was told, he did what was presented as the right thing to do. He had to stand up and learn to do what was right on his own initiative, which was his arc in tDR, just like Mat had to learn to take responsibility and do the right thing, while Egwnene had to find some sort of balance between independence and cooperation. And then they spent the rest of the series playing with those issues.

Perrin was large and strong, and he had to have been as a child to be accepted as the blacksmith's apprentice. He spent his formative years being told to be careful, to exercise restraint, because he could hurt someone. He was also the eldest child in the family, so that would have started as soon as Adora was born. That's a central issue in his character.

As far as the trial, the Children of the Light had a legitimate grievance. He attacked them unprovoked and killed men who were not doing any harm to him, because they killed animals. They had no way of knowing the animals in question were sentient or in any way deserving of consideration, and this was the tail end of a winter characterized by excessive wolf attacks. Wolves themselves tell Perrin to calm down in regard to much more egregious and unjustified killings. And that in turn, is another reason why Perrin is wary of his powers and so on. He overreacted and killed two men, because of those same powers. Of the other wolfbrothers Perrin meets, one is a fugitive living in the wilderness with little or no human contact, while the other had lost his mind. What's NOT to be concerned about? As far as actually using them, he did so in just about every book in which he appeared, starting with tGH, where he uses them to follow the Trollocs. He uses his abilities in tDR to communicate to a degree with Noam, to bring the wolves to help fight the Shadowspawn in the camp, and to free Faile from Bel'al's trap. In tSR, he uses his abilities to scout and fight Slayer, he uses them to bring wolves to rescue for Rand in LoC, and so on.

As far as the leadership goes, why should he embrace that? His reluctance never caused problems, it was simply a thing that was happening early on, and then he started shaping up when it became important. It might seem all cool and badass to be a lord commanding armed men, but it's a pain in the ass, a ton of work, and it isolates you from everyone around you. Elayne's late series arc gave a very mild picture of the tedium of rulership, and all people did was piss and moan about that too. So they are also mad because Perrin didn't want to turn into that?



For someone who can smell other people's emotions, he does show a remarkable lack of ability to step into their shoes.

Because it has nothing to do with that. He might know people are mad, but that's not going to tell them what has angered them about a particular situation, as well see with Faile. It's not like any other characters at all show any particular facility with that kind of thing. The occasional bit of insight here or there is as far as it goes.
Aram and the Two River's folk come to mind. And his completely misguided idea that Rand or the Wise Ones were going to kill the captured Aes Sedai.
His complete inability to accept that Masema was a threat to Rand and his reputation though he knew exactly how mad and dangerous the man was!
Except that never really manifested as a problem. Oh, sure sometimes Masema didn't cooperate with him, but no one cooperates in WoT. Masema's heart was in the right place. And here's the thing: whatever faults or flaws he might have had, Masema was loyal to Rand. If that doesn't count for something, what does.
He saw the dangers in Egwene playing with the One Power without training, which Verin later confirmed.

Perrin's reaction stemmed from fear and ignorance of the OP.

Fear is an excellent reaction to ignorance, which Verin faulted Egwene for not sharing. And he was right to do so. Egwene had no idea what she was doing, and the very next time we see her thinking about messing around with fire, she makes a bunch of torches flare without intending anything of the sort, in Fal Dara. Why don't you try sitting next to someone playing with a flamethrower, who has no idea how it works, or how to control it and keeps insisting on trying to cook your dinner with it, and can't understand why you flinch when they inadvertently point the muzzle at you. Perrin has spent years messing around with flames and white-hot metal, as well as being in like the top 1% of physical strength. He can't help but know how dangerous things can be without proper skill and control. He has spent his life handling dangerous materials and making good things. Egwene has spent her life day-dreaming of adventure and now yearning for power with no understanding. It's not her fault, anymore than it is the fault of a child for not understanding the gravity of a handgun, but you still don't have to be comfortable letting them wave it around.


You really think that Mat, Rand or Nynaeve would have reacted any differently?

Absolutely not, because they are all smart and sane, with an appropriate respect for power and a strong reluctance to misuse it.
And in any case, every single wilder in the series had successfully done more things with the OP untrained than Egwene did with her fire, Nynaeve included. Egwene wasn't even a Wilder.
Yes. Wilders do fine. Egwene is the worst of both worlds. She does not have the proven capabilities or instinctive balance that wilders seem to develop, nor the actual training of a normal channeler. She had no more idea of what she was doing than any wilder, except wilders have mostly come to some sort of restrain. If anything, their issue is that they overdo it on self-restraint, by unconsciously limiting themselves with additional conditions. Egwene has nothing like that to make her safe, and channelers much more experienced than she would never be allowed to light a fire unsupervised with no direct teaching.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Reply to message
Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 26/12/2015 08:46:07 PM 2110 Views
My answers - 27/12/2015 02:55:35 AM 1068 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 27/12/2015 04:42:28 PM 1169 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 27/12/2015 09:01:33 PM 1128 Views
Black Ajah - 28/12/2015 02:44:04 AM 1060 Views
Mine - 27/12/2015 10:39:08 PM 1210 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 12:57:23 AM 1099 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 09:51:54 AM 944 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 02:02:33 PM 997 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 12:40:49 PM 1396 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 01:53:00 PM 1204 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 11:35:09 AM 1034 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 05:12:46 PM 1074 Views
So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 04:26:47 PM 1261 Views
Re: So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM 1087 Views
Why do you bother? *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:23:10 AM 620 Views
Seriously... - 29/12/2015 01:30:34 AM 1099 Views
Sadly I have to agree - 29/12/2015 08:46:58 AM 1124 Views
You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 11:21:24 AM 1143 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 12:10:51 PM 1176 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:25:09 AM 1131 Views
Yet it's Mesaana who forces the head to head confrontation with Egwene - 30/12/2015 05:25:00 PM 1135 Views
I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 02:53:14 AM 952 Views
Re: I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 06:28:33 AM 1087 Views
Damn stupid WoT, never working out the way you think it should! - 04/01/2016 01:38:45 AM 1132 Views
So you agree, Egwene eliminated on of the Forsaken in a direct conflict - 04/01/2016 03:28:35 AM 994 Views
Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 07:17:20 AM 1168 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 03:59:18 PM 1072 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 04:19:00 PM 1118 Views
Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 04:28:00 PM 1164 Views
Re: Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 07:05:27 PM 1236 Views
That's not the worst argument given how lame many of them were - 04/01/2016 06:37:44 PM 1140 Views
Uh oh - 04/01/2016 07:03:08 PM 1580 Views
*grabs Dewars* *NM* - 04/01/2016 08:24:05 PM 724 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 06:22:02 PM 1254 Views
Apparently, Egwene shouldn't have killed the Sharans... - 31/12/2015 02:56:08 AM 1182 Views
it's just an excuse to not give credit to a character he doesn't like - 31/12/2015 04:44:17 AM 1338 Views
Exactly. The double standard has always existed in Cannoli's rants. - 31/12/2015 05:31:42 AM 1265 Views
Yes well I've only recently started to realize how distasteful it is - 31/12/2015 06:27:26 AM 1270 Views
Wow... the board was alive 5 years ago! - 31/12/2015 08:34:03 AM 1235 Views
LOL ... Someday you'll come to realize how right we were!!! *NM* - 31/12/2015 05:23:18 PM 738 Views
How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 08:05:38 AM 1348 Views
Re: How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 10:49:20 AM 1395 Views
You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... - 31/12/2015 07:09:55 PM 1251 Views
Offended? No, I find it funny, in a needs medication way - 31/12/2015 07:50:28 PM 1104 Views
It is possible - 01/01/2016 05:59:51 AM 1221 Views
It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 06:53:27 AM 1200 Views
Re: It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 08:43:43 AM 1141 Views
She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 01:49:37 AM 1215 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 04:16:39 AM 1185 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 08/01/2016 10:33:22 PM 1141 Views
Fair enough - 01/01/2016 09:31:47 AM 971 Views
Where did I say someone who reads his posts are dumb or something? - 01/01/2016 05:15:30 PM 943 Views
Not directly - 01/01/2016 09:09:05 PM 1042 Views
And yet I'm being told I'm the one acting offended - 02/01/2016 01:15:15 AM 919 Views
See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 06:20:16 PM 1014 Views
Re: See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 07:25:38 PM 1093 Views
Okay, Mark, all kidding and stuff aside, you're being the asshole, here. - 02/01/2016 03:49:08 AM 1116 Views
Okay... - 02/01/2016 04:50:24 AM 1059 Views
About insults... - 02/01/2016 05:04:47 AM 1011 Views
I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 02/01/2016 07:39:43 PM 983 Views
Re: I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 03/01/2016 10:39:10 AM 1021 Views
LOL ... Love it *NM* - 03/01/2016 04:17:02 PM 543 Views
Re: Okay... - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM 1297 Views
Um, I think you are going a bit far with your assumptions - 01/01/2016 07:35:23 PM 986 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 02:13:32 PM 1024 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM 1273 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 05:07:09 PM 1128 Views
My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:32:51 AM 1016 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:47:58 AM 1072 Views
Thanks - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM 989 Views
One thing... - 01/01/2016 06:42:10 AM 943 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 08:49:00 AM 958 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 01:40:21 PM 1014 Views
Interesting - 01/01/2016 09:18:43 AM 986 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 05:29:38 PM 1007 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 06:50:26 PM 945 Views
Or perhaps a mixed circle could figure it out - 01/01/2016 07:40:02 PM 925 Views
Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 01/01/2016 09:10:26 PM 985 Views
Re: Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 02/01/2016 01:13:05 AM 982 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 02/01/2016 02:10:44 AM 1205 Views
Here we go with the selective criticisms again... - 02/01/2016 04:23:47 AM 1065 Views
It's not selective to point out legitimate differences in circumstances. - 02/01/2016 12:25:07 PM 1251 Views
not true, the Sul'dam's mission was to capture or kill as many marath'damane as they could - 02/01/2016 08:49:28 PM 961 Views
How are they supposed to do that without a'dam? - 04/01/2016 01:45:52 AM 1088 Views
enemy combatant in an active hot zone - 04/01/2016 03:34:15 AM 967 Views
Only if they were germane to the issue... - 03/01/2016 09:32:22 AM 931 Views
Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:22:12 PM 992 Views
Re: Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:56:35 PM 1127 Views
Cheers - 03/01/2016 09:50:41 PM 908 Views
Re: Cheers - 03/01/2016 10:35:34 PM 1061 Views
Re: Only if they were germane to the issue... - 04/01/2016 07:15:58 AM 1003 Views
Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 12:29:58 PM 1311 Views
Re: Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 02:41:19 PM 1197 Views
Interesting... - 28/12/2015 02:31:33 PM 1048 Views
Re Perrin - 29/12/2015 07:24:41 AM 1111 Views
Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 08:26:18 AM 1255 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 01:44:53 PM 1077 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 07/01/2016 12:24:28 AM 1317 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:40:03 PM 856 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:44:10 PM 831 Views
Overrated characters - 06/02/2016 04:24:55 PM 874 Views

Reply to Message