Active Users:850 Time:15/11/2024 02:26:37 PM
Re: Okay... Cannoli Send a noteboard - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM

Where? I've made about three posts in this whole chain and it's about the Egwene issue. When must I let it lie... why can't we argue about it?

I never said we can't. I'm not the one asking why you bother. I have been asked in past why I bother doing the same thing with fionwe1987. But I don't turn around and go, "yes, he's stupid or stubborn." I appreciate those qualities to an extent, because, as you said, it keeps things going. From my perspective, he is the one who ignores facts and quotes, and is selective.

Yes your position is extreme, and I agree that it's harmless. However, if it's extreme then by definition you're biased

Extreme is not inherently wrong, and I don't believe it is extreme, except in consistency. I was stipulating extremism for the sake of argument.
and show a general trend of injustice when someone tries to show you something redeeming about her.
I don't agree that those things are redeeming. Usually such examples have self-serving aspects, or are in service to an unjust end. I wouldn't go so far as to say that she is so thoroughly capable of wrongdoing that anything else is impossible for her, rather I expect her to adhere to the same moral rules as anyone else. Therefore, examples of times when she refrained from active wrongdoing simply do not mitigate or cancel out other things she does that are wrong. For instance, overriding Siuan's intention to murder Nicola and Areina would not cancel out a hypothetical murder on Egwene's part (and as she does commit two such murders in tGS, that puts her further in the whole), as that command is basically the minimal expectation of decent behavior, like Elayne forbidding Birgitte from unlawfully arresting "Mellar". An act of mercy that mitigates violence, would be when someone forgoes a justifiable and personally desirable act of violence. Giving away something you do not lawfully possess is not an act of goodness, and therefore it cannot be a mitigation of theft.
Cannoli you are the rudest poster I've ever come across on this board, or on wotmania. You've only recently even become civil to other posters. I think it's a good point when rationalizing why others posters usually come at you so aggressively - I think we've all felt your venom over the years.
So what? You're completely ignoring the point I've made, that one thing does not justify another. I don't care how "aggressively" anyone comes at me (for the most part, this stuff does not even register on me, as I don't like to project emotions onto correspondance), I care about the topic. When you say "this is wrong, because the book says XXX" that's something we can talk about. When you say "you're wrong because I imagine you to be XXXX sort of person," that's a bullshit argument. That's not even an argument, it is a fallacy. THAT is the substance of my objection, not that my feelings are hurt, but that it is an illegitimate argument or answer.

I did not claim that! I had nothing to do with that assertion. I was merely informing this Tyr person that you actually do have another login when he replied to Darius' assertion.
And by defending his assertion, you supported and abetted it! Tyr doubted I would make up fake accounts for the purpose of defending my own positions, and you implied that I did by pointing out that I have another account. Why is that fact at all relevant, unless you are trying to support darius' position?
Are you saying that I'm commenting where I'm not wanted?
No, I am saying you bring irrelevant personal things into a discussion about WoT.
Because I thought that conversations that split off were completely acceptable. There are certain posters whom I like to interact with like you, Cannoli, DomA, Darius, Fionwe and Shannow. I think your appraisal of me is very unfair considering my posts above were purely and factually about Egwene. The other two berated me for trying - it makes complete sense that they wanted to challenge you too but they find it a waste of time. I definitely felt like I wasted my time.
Why? Are you walking back any claims? Conceding any positions? Am I complaining about wasting my time?

You are biased - you can't accept quotes that directly contradict your opinions.
I can't accept your descriptions of quotes, and I don't accept other people's opinions about the meanings of quotes as definitive.
Forgive me but I think that's what you do. I've given evidence that I've posted moderate opinions about this character. Where is yours?
Why is a moderate opinion necessary or superior?
Except anyone else who also does is "crazy". And now you guys, after bringing the whole point up, are now falling all over yourselves to pretend indifference and innocence.

Well you're mashing us all together into a 'single poster' which isn't fair. I wrote to you about Egwene in two decent posts and agreed with Fionwe that you've become too stubborn to talk to. I apologize if that felt like a mortal wound.

See? There you go again.
I personally have been on the receiving end of exactly that sort of vitriol from you about Lanfear slash everyone. You've directly told me that I'm a power-hungry person in real life because I like the Forsaken and the OP.
But I never said you were not worth talking about, or inferred personal qualities from a general style of discussion. If you want to guess what my specific complaints about Egwene say about my values and opinions, go right ahead. Hell, it's something I've wondered about for the fandom in general, and even speculated about back on wotmania, but couldn't think of any way to explore.
Cannoli, for the love of god, go look at the original posts by me and Fionwe where we demonstrated that you distorted quotes! Fionwe went into even further detail about the raid on the Tower. Your recollection of the facts of those scenes is wrong. It's this sort of denial that is so frustrating.
You didn't quote, though fionwe did later, about a peripheral issue. You offered your own recollections and perspectives of that incident.
Gosh I'm starting to think this is years of anger being released in my direction I never said you falsified responses to your own posts, not even once. I'm not going to go into the CMB posts and how people aggressively reply to your seemingly radical political/minority views... I just hate it when aggressors are pitied as victims on this board.
What does being radical or a minority have do with right or wrong?
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 26/12/2015 08:46:07 PM 2110 Views
My answers - 27/12/2015 02:55:35 AM 1068 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 27/12/2015 04:42:28 PM 1169 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 27/12/2015 09:01:33 PM 1128 Views
Black Ajah - 28/12/2015 02:44:04 AM 1060 Views
Mine - 27/12/2015 10:39:08 PM 1210 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 12:57:23 AM 1099 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 09:51:54 AM 944 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 02:02:33 PM 997 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 12:40:49 PM 1395 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 01:53:00 PM 1203 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 11:35:09 AM 1034 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 05:12:46 PM 1074 Views
So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 04:26:47 PM 1260 Views
Re: So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM 1086 Views
Why do you bother? *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:23:10 AM 620 Views
Seriously... - 29/12/2015 01:30:34 AM 1099 Views
Sadly I have to agree - 29/12/2015 08:46:58 AM 1124 Views
You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 11:21:24 AM 1143 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 12:10:51 PM 1176 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:25:09 AM 1130 Views
Yet it's Mesaana who forces the head to head confrontation with Egwene - 30/12/2015 05:25:00 PM 1135 Views
I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 02:53:14 AM 952 Views
Re: I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 06:28:33 AM 1086 Views
Damn stupid WoT, never working out the way you think it should! - 04/01/2016 01:38:45 AM 1132 Views
So you agree, Egwene eliminated on of the Forsaken in a direct conflict - 04/01/2016 03:28:35 AM 993 Views
Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 07:17:20 AM 1168 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 03:59:18 PM 1072 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 04:19:00 PM 1118 Views
Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 04:28:00 PM 1164 Views
Re: Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 07:05:27 PM 1236 Views
That's not the worst argument given how lame many of them were - 04/01/2016 06:37:44 PM 1140 Views
Uh oh - 04/01/2016 07:03:08 PM 1580 Views
*grabs Dewars* *NM* - 04/01/2016 08:24:05 PM 724 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 06:22:02 PM 1254 Views
Apparently, Egwene shouldn't have killed the Sharans... - 31/12/2015 02:56:08 AM 1182 Views
it's just an excuse to not give credit to a character he doesn't like - 31/12/2015 04:44:17 AM 1338 Views
Exactly. The double standard has always existed in Cannoli's rants. - 31/12/2015 05:31:42 AM 1265 Views
Yes well I've only recently started to realize how distasteful it is - 31/12/2015 06:27:26 AM 1270 Views
Wow... the board was alive 5 years ago! - 31/12/2015 08:34:03 AM 1235 Views
LOL ... Someday you'll come to realize how right we were!!! *NM* - 31/12/2015 05:23:18 PM 738 Views
How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 08:05:38 AM 1348 Views
Re: How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 10:49:20 AM 1395 Views
You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... - 31/12/2015 07:09:55 PM 1251 Views
Offended? No, I find it funny, in a needs medication way - 31/12/2015 07:50:28 PM 1104 Views
It is possible - 01/01/2016 05:59:51 AM 1221 Views
It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 06:53:27 AM 1200 Views
Re: It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 08:43:43 AM 1141 Views
She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 01:49:37 AM 1215 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 04:16:39 AM 1185 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 08/01/2016 10:33:22 PM 1140 Views
Fair enough - 01/01/2016 09:31:47 AM 971 Views
Where did I say someone who reads his posts are dumb or something? - 01/01/2016 05:15:30 PM 943 Views
Not directly - 01/01/2016 09:09:05 PM 1042 Views
And yet I'm being told I'm the one acting offended - 02/01/2016 01:15:15 AM 919 Views
See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 06:20:16 PM 1014 Views
Re: See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 07:25:38 PM 1093 Views
Okay, Mark, all kidding and stuff aside, you're being the asshole, here. - 02/01/2016 03:49:08 AM 1116 Views
Okay... - 02/01/2016 04:50:24 AM 1059 Views
About insults... - 02/01/2016 05:04:47 AM 1011 Views
I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 02/01/2016 07:39:43 PM 983 Views
Re: I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 03/01/2016 10:39:10 AM 1021 Views
LOL ... Love it *NM* - 03/01/2016 04:17:02 PM 543 Views
Re: Okay... - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM 1297 Views
Um, I think you are going a bit far with your assumptions - 01/01/2016 07:35:23 PM 985 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 02:13:32 PM 1024 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM 1273 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 05:07:09 PM 1127 Views
My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:32:51 AM 1016 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:47:58 AM 1072 Views
Thanks - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM 988 Views
One thing... - 01/01/2016 06:42:10 AM 943 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 08:49:00 AM 958 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 01:40:21 PM 1014 Views
Interesting - 01/01/2016 09:18:43 AM 986 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 05:29:38 PM 1007 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 06:50:26 PM 945 Views
Or perhaps a mixed circle could figure it out - 01/01/2016 07:40:02 PM 925 Views
Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 01/01/2016 09:10:26 PM 985 Views
Re: Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 02/01/2016 01:13:05 AM 982 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 02/01/2016 02:10:44 AM 1205 Views
Here we go with the selective criticisms again... - 02/01/2016 04:23:47 AM 1065 Views
It's not selective to point out legitimate differences in circumstances. - 02/01/2016 12:25:07 PM 1251 Views
not true, the Sul'dam's mission was to capture or kill as many marath'damane as they could - 02/01/2016 08:49:28 PM 961 Views
How are they supposed to do that without a'dam? - 04/01/2016 01:45:52 AM 1088 Views
enemy combatant in an active hot zone - 04/01/2016 03:34:15 AM 967 Views
Only if they were germane to the issue... - 03/01/2016 09:32:22 AM 931 Views
Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:22:12 PM 992 Views
Re: Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:56:35 PM 1127 Views
Cheers - 03/01/2016 09:50:41 PM 908 Views
Re: Cheers - 03/01/2016 10:35:34 PM 1060 Views
Re: Only if they were germane to the issue... - 04/01/2016 07:15:58 AM 1003 Views
Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 12:29:58 PM 1310 Views
Re: Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 02:41:19 PM 1197 Views
Interesting... - 28/12/2015 02:31:33 PM 1047 Views
Re Perrin - 29/12/2015 07:24:41 AM 1111 Views
Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 08:26:18 AM 1255 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 01:44:53 PM 1077 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 07/01/2016 12:24:28 AM 1316 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:40:03 PM 856 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:44:10 PM 831 Views
Overrated characters - 06/02/2016 04:24:55 PM 874 Views

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