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Thanks gban007 Send a noteboard - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM

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Regarding the helpless Sul'dam, my recollection is that Egwene freed the Damane, and then after that killed the Sul'dam, who realistically at that point weren't a direct threat, and I think it is debatable that a sister who had sworn the three oaths would have been able to kill them.

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced the Three Oaths would have stopped that. Look, we see Joline, Teslyn and Edesina hurl fireballs at an oncoming army of Seanchan. They could have just woven a wall of air to protect themselves from their arrows. But they chose to kill them anyway.

Whether the Three Oaths would have stopped this or not, though, within the combat situation they were in, Egwene did not violate any basic laws of combat by killing the sul'dam. They hadn't voluntarily disarmed, and certainly hadn't offered anything like a surrender, and were quite unlikely to anyway.


True, I think you are right, that there is good evidence that the three oaths have enough greyness within them, that even having sworn them, the same outcome could have occurred. I think it was a somewhat dubious action, but in retrospect not an action other Aes Sedai (or indeed many of the other heroes of the books, including Perrin, though Mat and Rand with their to my mind somewhat warped view of women would be different) wouldn't have undertaken themselves.



My recollection of Egwene's death is even shakier, as can't recall all the intricacies of it, but it wasn't that clear to me that she needed to overdraw in order to wipe out the Shanaran channelers - it seemed that at that point she gave up somewhat, following Gawyn's death, and so let go of things, and may have got almost the same impact either way.

Egwene already overdrew before she killed the Sharans. She was perfectly matched with Taim, and had to overdraw to overcome his Balefire. This was a done deal. She was either going to release the source, and be burned out, and completely in no position to stop the Sharans or deal with the new hole in the Pattern, or else overdraw even more and do both those things, risking death. She chose the latter, which is perfectly fair, and was the sensible and right thing to do anyway.

Fair enough, given those were the options, then yes I think either option was valid, and the option chosen the best thing for everyone involved, and the more selfless, especially as there is now potential that being burned out can be cured. I think I can see why Cannoli has a differing view on this one, but can't agree with him myself on this one.

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Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 26/12/2015 08:46:07 PM 2201 Views
My answers gban007 - 27/12/2015 02:55:35 AM 1164 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions darius_sedai - 27/12/2015 04:42:28 PM 1260 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 27/12/2015 09:01:33 PM 1217 Views
Black Ajah darius_sedai - 28/12/2015 02:44:04 AM 1147 Views
Mine Sidious - 27/12/2015 10:39:08 PM 1305 Views
Re: Mine kHz1000 - 28/12/2015 12:57:23 AM 1191 Views
Re: Mine Sidious - 28/12/2015 09:51:54 AM 1046 Views
Re: Mine kHz1000 - 28/12/2015 02:02:33 PM 1080 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Cannoli - 28/12/2015 12:40:49 PM 1495 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 28/12/2015 01:53:00 PM 1290 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Cannoli - 29/12/2015 11:35:09 AM 1134 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 29/12/2015 05:12:46 PM 1166 Views
So about Egwene... Sidious - 28/12/2015 04:26:47 PM 1365 Views
Re: So about Egwene... Cannoli - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM 1192 Views
Why do you bother? *NM* darius_sedai - 29/12/2015 01:23:10 AM 655 Views
Seriously... fionwe1987 - 29/12/2015 01:30:34 AM 1192 Views
Sadly I have to agree Sidious - 29/12/2015 08:46:58 AM 1220 Views
You people are the insane ones Cannoli - 29/12/2015 11:21:24 AM 1241 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Sidious - 29/12/2015 12:10:51 PM 1280 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Cannoli - 30/12/2015 11:25:09 AM 1235 Views
Yet it's Mesaana who forces the head to head confrontation with Egwene darius_sedai - 30/12/2015 05:25:00 PM 1216 Views
I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 02:53:14 AM 1047 Views
Re: I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... Sidious - 31/12/2015 06:28:33 AM 1183 Views
Damn stupid WoT, never working out the way you think it should! Cannoli - 04/01/2016 01:38:45 AM 1216 Views
So you agree, Egwene eliminated on of the Forsaken in a direct conflict darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 03:28:35 AM 1075 Views
Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. Cannoli - 04/01/2016 07:17:20 AM 1271 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 03:59:18 PM 1194 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. Sidious - 04/01/2016 04:19:00 PM 1202 Views
Well, to put things in context fionwe1987 - 04/01/2016 04:28:00 PM 1242 Views
Re: Well, to put things in context Sidious - 04/01/2016 07:05:27 PM 1322 Views
That's not the worst argument given how lame many of them were darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 06:37:44 PM 1243 Views
Uh oh Sidious - 04/01/2016 07:03:08 PM 1674 Views
*grabs Dewars* *NM* darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 08:24:05 PM 761 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Sidious - 30/12/2015 06:22:02 PM 1349 Views
Apparently, Egwene shouldn't have killed the Sharans... fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 02:56:08 AM 1275 Views
it's just an excuse to not give credit to a character he doesn't like darius_sedai - 31/12/2015 04:44:17 AM 1429 Views
Exactly. The double standard has always existed in Cannoli's rants. fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 05:31:42 AM 1355 Views
Yes well I've only recently started to realize how distasteful it is Sidious - 31/12/2015 06:27:26 AM 1369 Views
Wow... the board was alive 5 years ago! fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 08:34:03 AM 1324 Views
LOL ... Someday you'll come to realize how right we were!!! *NM* darius_sedai - 31/12/2015 05:23:18 PM 779 Views
How is this a concession? Cannoli - 04/01/2016 08:05:38 AM 1456 Views
Re: How is this a concession? Sidious - 04/01/2016 10:49:20 AM 1500 Views
You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... TyrReborn - 31/12/2015 07:09:55 PM 1338 Views
Offended? No, I find it funny, in a needs medication way darius_sedai - 31/12/2015 07:50:28 PM 1194 Views
It is possible gban007 - 01/01/2016 05:59:51 AM 1324 Views
It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 06:53:27 AM 1303 Views
Re: It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back Sidious - 01/01/2016 08:43:43 AM 1240 Views
She's. Not. A. Real. Person. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 01:49:37 AM 1304 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. Sidious - 02/01/2016 04:16:39 AM 1280 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. lilltempest - 08/01/2016 10:33:22 PM 1240 Views
Fair enough gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:31:47 AM 1070 Views
Where did I say someone who reads his posts are dumb or something? darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 05:15:30 PM 1028 Views
Not directly gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:09:05 PM 1141 Views
And yet I'm being told I'm the one acting offended darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 01:15:15 AM 1019 Views
See, this is the crap I'm talking about. TyrReborn - 01/01/2016 06:20:16 PM 1099 Views
Re: See, this is the crap I'm talking about. Sidious - 01/01/2016 07:25:38 PM 1189 Views
Okay, Mark, all kidding and stuff aside, you're being the asshole, here. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 03:49:08 AM 1203 Views
Okay... Sidious - 02/01/2016 04:50:24 AM 1140 Views
About insults... fionwe1987 - 02/01/2016 05:04:47 AM 1099 Views
I don't know where to even respond about all this! darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 07:39:43 PM 1075 Views
Re: I don't know where to even respond about all this! Sidious - 03/01/2016 10:39:10 AM 1117 Views
LOL ... Love it *NM* darius_sedai - 03/01/2016 04:17:02 PM 582 Views
Re: Okay... Cannoli - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM 1388 Views
Um, I think you are going a bit far with your assumptions darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 07:35:23 PM 1071 Views
Cannoli's the one who got offended. fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 09:23:45 PM 1105 Views
Yeah, because I was talking about the books, and then you three started talking about me. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 03:55:23 AM 1119 Views
Re: Yeah, because I was talking about the books, and then you three started talking about me. fionwe1987 - 02/01/2016 04:56:36 AM 1074 Views
Re: You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... Sidious - 01/01/2016 08:41:18 AM 1088 Views
Right? Hell, I was semi-mocking YOU for even bothering to get into it with Cannoli! *NM* darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 05:20:58 PM 551 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones fionwe1987 - 29/12/2015 02:13:32 PM 1112 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Cannoli - 30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM 1362 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones fionwe1987 - 30/12/2015 05:07:09 PM 1223 Views
My admittedly scratch memory gban007 - 31/12/2015 08:32:51 AM 1111 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 08:47:58 AM 1164 Views
Thanks gban007 - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM 1078 Views
One thing... fionwe1987 - 01/01/2016 06:42:10 AM 1024 Views
Re: One thing... Sidious - 01/01/2016 08:49:00 AM 1044 Views
Re: One thing... fionwe1987 - 01/01/2016 01:40:21 PM 1102 Views
We need a term for stuff like that. I nominate "pulling a Brandon" because "BS" is so common. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 02:13:19 AM 1095 Views
Interesting gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:18:43 AM 1087 Views
Re: Interesting darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 05:29:38 PM 1098 Views
Re: Interesting gban007 - 01/01/2016 06:50:26 PM 1025 Views
Or perhaps a mixed circle could figure it out darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 07:40:02 PM 1016 Views
Maybe it's like a broken bone? gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:10:26 PM 1079 Views
Re: Maybe it's like a broken bone? darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 01:13:05 AM 1073 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory Cannoli - 02/01/2016 02:10:44 AM 1296 Views
Here we go with the selective criticisms again... fionwe1987 - 02/01/2016 04:23:47 AM 1153 Views
It's not selective to point out legitimate differences in circumstances. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 12:25:07 PM 1345 Views
not true, the Sul'dam's mission was to capture or kill as many marath'damane as they could darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 08:49:28 PM 1054 Views
How are they supposed to do that without a'dam? Cannoli - 04/01/2016 01:45:52 AM 1177 Views
enemy combatant in an active hot zone darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 03:34:15 AM 1059 Views
Only if they were germane to the issue... fionwe1987 - 03/01/2016 09:32:22 AM 1024 Views
Timing of the creation of the three oaths gban007 - 03/01/2016 08:22:12 PM 1062 Views
Re: Timing of the creation of the three oaths darius_sedai - 03/01/2016 08:56:35 PM 1214 Views
Cheers gban007 - 03/01/2016 09:50:41 PM 992 Views
Re: Cheers darius_sedai - 03/01/2016 10:35:34 PM 1147 Views
Re: Only if they were germane to the issue... Cannoli - 04/01/2016 07:15:58 AM 1108 Views
Q.E.D. fionwe1987 - 04/01/2016 12:29:58 PM 1399 Views
Re: Q.E.D. Sidious - 04/01/2016 02:41:19 PM 1288 Views
Interesting... fionwe1987 - 28/12/2015 02:31:33 PM 1133 Views
Re Perrin gban007 - 29/12/2015 07:24:41 AM 1200 Views
Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? Cannoli - 04/01/2016 08:26:18 AM 1329 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? kHz1000 - 04/01/2016 01:44:53 PM 1178 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? Cannoli - 07/01/2016 12:24:28 AM 1422 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Morning - 18/01/2016 04:40:03 PM 946 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Morning - 18/01/2016 04:44:10 PM 919 Views
Overrated characters Morning - 06/02/2016 04:24:55 PM 960 Views
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