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Thanks gban007 Send a noteboard - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM

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Regarding the helpless Sul'dam, my recollection is that Egwene freed the Damane, and then after that killed the Sul'dam, who realistically at that point weren't a direct threat, and I think it is debatable that a sister who had sworn the three oaths would have been able to kill them.

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced the Three Oaths would have stopped that. Look, we see Joline, Teslyn and Edesina hurl fireballs at an oncoming army of Seanchan. They could have just woven a wall of air to protect themselves from their arrows. But they chose to kill them anyway.

Whether the Three Oaths would have stopped this or not, though, within the combat situation they were in, Egwene did not violate any basic laws of combat by killing the sul'dam. They hadn't voluntarily disarmed, and certainly hadn't offered anything like a surrender, and were quite unlikely to anyway.


True, I think you are right, that there is good evidence that the three oaths have enough greyness within them, that even having sworn them, the same outcome could have occurred. I think it was a somewhat dubious action, but in retrospect not an action other Aes Sedai (or indeed many of the other heroes of the books, including Perrin, though Mat and Rand with their to my mind somewhat warped view of women would be different) wouldn't have undertaken themselves.



My recollection of Egwene's death is even shakier, as can't recall all the intricacies of it, but it wasn't that clear to me that she needed to overdraw in order to wipe out the Shanaran channelers - it seemed that at that point she gave up somewhat, following Gawyn's death, and so let go of things, and may have got almost the same impact either way.

Egwene already overdrew before she killed the Sharans. She was perfectly matched with Taim, and had to overdraw to overcome his Balefire. This was a done deal. She was either going to release the source, and be burned out, and completely in no position to stop the Sharans or deal with the new hole in the Pattern, or else overdraw even more and do both those things, risking death. She chose the latter, which is perfectly fair, and was the sensible and right thing to do anyway.

Fair enough, given those were the options, then yes I think either option was valid, and the option chosen the best thing for everyone involved, and the more selfless, especially as there is now potential that being burned out can be cured. I think I can see why Cannoli has a differing view on this one, but can't agree with him myself on this one.

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Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 26/12/2015 08:46:07 PM 2546 Views
My answers gban007 - 27/12/2015 02:55:35 AM 1535 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions darius_sedai - 27/12/2015 04:42:28 PM 1637 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 27/12/2015 09:01:33 PM 1626 Views
Black Ajah darius_sedai - 28/12/2015 02:44:04 AM 1534 Views
Mine Sidious - 27/12/2015 10:39:08 PM 1659 Views
Re: Mine kHz1000 - 28/12/2015 12:57:23 AM 1600 Views
Re: Mine Sidious - 28/12/2015 09:51:54 AM 1396 Views
Re: Mine kHz1000 - 28/12/2015 02:02:33 PM 1412 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Cannoli - 28/12/2015 12:40:49 PM 1890 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 28/12/2015 01:53:00 PM 1724 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Cannoli - 29/12/2015 11:35:09 AM 1499 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 29/12/2015 05:12:46 PM 1501 Views
So about Egwene... Sidious - 28/12/2015 04:26:47 PM 1731 Views
Re: So about Egwene... Cannoli - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM 1593 Views
Why do you bother? *NM* darius_sedai - 29/12/2015 01:23:10 AM 878 Views
Seriously... fionwe1987 - 29/12/2015 01:30:34 AM 1505 Views
Sadly I have to agree Sidious - 29/12/2015 08:46:58 AM 1590 Views
You people are the insane ones Cannoli - 29/12/2015 11:21:24 AM 1578 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Sidious - 29/12/2015 12:10:51 PM 1682 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Cannoli - 30/12/2015 11:25:09 AM 1586 Views
Yet it's Mesaana who forces the head to head confrontation with Egwene darius_sedai - 30/12/2015 05:25:00 PM 1611 Views
I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 02:53:14 AM 1389 Views
Re: I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... Sidious - 31/12/2015 06:28:33 AM 1526 Views
Damn stupid WoT, never working out the way you think it should! Cannoli - 04/01/2016 01:38:45 AM 1560 Views
So you agree, Egwene eliminated on of the Forsaken in a direct conflict darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 03:28:35 AM 1398 Views
Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. Cannoli - 04/01/2016 07:17:20 AM 1633 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 03:59:18 PM 1584 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. Sidious - 04/01/2016 04:19:00 PM 1552 Views
Well, to put things in context fionwe1987 - 04/01/2016 04:28:00 PM 1603 Views
Re: Well, to put things in context Sidious - 04/01/2016 07:05:27 PM 1883 Views
That's not the worst argument given how lame many of them were darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 06:37:44 PM 1734 Views
Uh oh Sidious - 04/01/2016 07:03:08 PM 2266 Views
*grabs Dewars* *NM* darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 08:24:05 PM 978 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Sidious - 30/12/2015 06:22:02 PM 1724 Views
Apparently, Egwene shouldn't have killed the Sharans... fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 02:56:08 AM 1626 Views
it's just an excuse to not give credit to a character he doesn't like darius_sedai - 31/12/2015 04:44:17 AM 1788 Views
Exactly. The double standard has always existed in Cannoli's rants. fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 05:31:42 AM 1715 Views
Yes well I've only recently started to realize how distasteful it is Sidious - 31/12/2015 06:27:26 AM 1795 Views
Wow... the board was alive 5 years ago! fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 08:34:03 AM 1669 Views
LOL ... Someday you'll come to realize how right we were!!! *NM* darius_sedai - 31/12/2015 05:23:18 PM 989 Views
How is this a concession? Cannoli - 04/01/2016 08:05:38 AM 1839 Views
Re: How is this a concession? Sidious - 04/01/2016 10:49:20 AM 1855 Views
You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... TyrReborn - 31/12/2015 07:09:55 PM 1677 Views
Offended? No, I find it funny, in a needs medication way darius_sedai - 31/12/2015 07:50:28 PM 1555 Views
It is possible gban007 - 01/01/2016 05:59:51 AM 1682 Views
It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 06:53:27 AM 1703 Views
Re: It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back Sidious - 01/01/2016 08:43:43 AM 1639 Views
She's. Not. A. Real. Person. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 01:49:37 AM 1647 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. Sidious - 02/01/2016 04:16:39 AM 1636 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. lilltempest - 08/01/2016 10:33:22 PM 1614 Views
Fair enough gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:31:47 AM 1392 Views
Where did I say someone who reads his posts are dumb or something? darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 05:15:30 PM 1513 Views
Not directly gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:09:05 PM 1467 Views
And yet I'm being told I'm the one acting offended darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 01:15:15 AM 1377 Views
See, this is the crap I'm talking about. TyrReborn - 01/01/2016 06:20:16 PM 1520 Views
Re: See, this is the crap I'm talking about. Sidious - 01/01/2016 07:25:38 PM 1646 Views
Okay, Mark, all kidding and stuff aside, you're being the asshole, here. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 03:49:08 AM 1597 Views
Okay... Sidious - 02/01/2016 04:50:24 AM 1477 Views
About insults... fionwe1987 - 02/01/2016 05:04:47 AM 1466 Views
I don't know where to even respond about all this! darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 07:39:43 PM 1468 Views
Re: I don't know where to even respond about all this! Sidious - 03/01/2016 10:39:10 AM 1471 Views
LOL ... Love it *NM* darius_sedai - 03/01/2016 04:17:02 PM 806 Views
Re: Okay... Cannoli - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM 1719 Views
Um, I think you are going a bit far with your assumptions darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 07:35:23 PM 1463 Views
Cannoli's the one who got offended. fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 09:23:45 PM 1432 Views
Yeah, because I was talking about the books, and then you three started talking about me. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 03:55:23 AM 1501 Views
Re: Yeah, because I was talking about the books, and then you three started talking about me. fionwe1987 - 02/01/2016 04:56:36 AM 1430 Views
Re: You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... Sidious - 01/01/2016 08:41:18 AM 1462 Views
Right? Hell, I was semi-mocking YOU for even bothering to get into it with Cannoli! *NM* darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 05:20:58 PM 748 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones fionwe1987 - 29/12/2015 02:13:32 PM 1467 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Cannoli - 30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM 1747 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones fionwe1987 - 30/12/2015 05:07:09 PM 1587 Views
My admittedly scratch memory gban007 - 31/12/2015 08:32:51 AM 1517 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 08:47:58 AM 1546 Views
Thanks gban007 - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM 1447 Views
One thing... fionwe1987 - 01/01/2016 06:42:10 AM 1377 Views
Re: One thing... Sidious - 01/01/2016 08:49:00 AM 1408 Views
Re: One thing... fionwe1987 - 01/01/2016 01:40:21 PM 1457 Views
We need a term for stuff like that. I nominate "pulling a Brandon" because "BS" is so common. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 02:13:19 AM 1483 Views
Interesting gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:18:43 AM 1409 Views
Re: Interesting darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 05:29:38 PM 1439 Views
Re: Interesting gban007 - 01/01/2016 06:50:26 PM 1412 Views
Or perhaps a mixed circle could figure it out darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 07:40:02 PM 1458 Views
Maybe it's like a broken bone? gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:10:26 PM 1399 Views
Re: Maybe it's like a broken bone? darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 01:13:05 AM 1445 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory Cannoli - 02/01/2016 02:10:44 AM 1668 Views
Here we go with the selective criticisms again... fionwe1987 - 02/01/2016 04:23:47 AM 1555 Views
It's not selective to point out legitimate differences in circumstances. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 12:25:07 PM 1733 Views
not true, the Sul'dam's mission was to capture or kill as many marath'damane as they could darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 08:49:28 PM 1402 Views
How are they supposed to do that without a'dam? Cannoli - 04/01/2016 01:45:52 AM 1507 Views
enemy combatant in an active hot zone darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 03:34:15 AM 1428 Views
Only if they were germane to the issue... fionwe1987 - 03/01/2016 09:32:22 AM 1423 Views
Timing of the creation of the three oaths gban007 - 03/01/2016 08:22:12 PM 1428 Views
Re: Timing of the creation of the three oaths darius_sedai - 03/01/2016 08:56:35 PM 1572 Views
Cheers gban007 - 03/01/2016 09:50:41 PM 1428 Views
Re: Cheers darius_sedai - 03/01/2016 10:35:34 PM 1544 Views
Re: Only if they were germane to the issue... Cannoli - 04/01/2016 07:15:58 AM 1497 Views
Q.E.D. fionwe1987 - 04/01/2016 12:29:58 PM 1765 Views
Re: Q.E.D. Sidious - 04/01/2016 02:41:19 PM 1654 Views
Interesting... fionwe1987 - 28/12/2015 02:31:33 PM 1497 Views
Re Perrin gban007 - 29/12/2015 07:24:41 AM 1563 Views
Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? Cannoli - 04/01/2016 08:26:18 AM 1672 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? kHz1000 - 04/01/2016 01:44:53 PM 1556 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? Cannoli - 07/01/2016 12:24:28 AM 1814 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Morning - 18/01/2016 04:40:03 PM 1285 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Morning - 18/01/2016 04:44:10 PM 1274 Views
Overrated characters Morning - 06/02/2016 04:24:55 PM 1310 Views
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