Active Users:865 Time:15/10/2025 07:41:23 PM
Part of this is also about an individual's personality darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 30/12/2015 04:40:28 PM

View original post
Remember, Moiraine says that she didn't have to obey Anaiya, who is just one level below Cetalia. To me that says Moiraine was at level 17 or even 16.



Anaiya isn't the type to demand obedience when she can be polite. I'm also theorizing that 4 levels is the point at which most AS are willing to defer beyond politeness to a stronger sister, but still won't take outright commands. We've seen women 1-2 levels lower be quite forceful with stronger women. Sheriam never deferred to Elaida, Lelaine and Romanda, Verin never really deferred to Bera/Kiruna despite 3 levels gap, neither did Seonid. The Salidar 6 didn't defer to Romanda or Lelaine either and Beonin was a level 16 making her 3 levels below them.

I also suspect that deference between the strongest levels is different than with the weaker women. Most level 16/17/18/19 women encounter few significantly stronger sisters and thus are unaccustomed to deferring on a regular basis, let's face it there are only about 50 Aes Sedai level 15+ so the vast majority of the time any woman in the 19+ range isn't going to face situations where she is forced to defer. However, the weaker women like Cabriana at level 36 is almost habitually deferring and may defer to women only 2 levels stronger simply because she's used to deferring in general. We see this a little bit when Siuan is depowered and the Aes Sedai note that she has not adjusted well to her new situation. Basically Siuan doesn't really know how to defer anymore because she's been at the top of the social ladder since she became strong enough to ignore Citalia. But even she struggled with a woman 8 levels higher, Aeldine at level 27. Yet we see no deference between Leane and Siuan with only 1 level difference and Leane is noted as having adjusted remarkably well, but Leane's act of obviously open dislike for Siuan is accepted as OK despite her being weaker, this probably wouldn't be as accepted if the strength margin between them was wider.

Another example we have is Delana at level 18. She implied that she should have been forced to defer to Siuan because of the margin between them (5) levels. Yet we see that Felaana at level 17 is willing to stand up to level 14 Merean and level 15 Katerine with little difficultly. This implies 2-3 levels difference is not enough to command deference beyond simple social nicety. Whereas at 4 levels women begin to accept polite instructions and at 5 levels take direct orders and beyond that it seems weaker women are expected to do as they are told without comment. Kumira at level 24 is essentially silent with everyone except Daigian and she is 10 levels below Merise, 9 below Nesune, 6 levels below Corele and Saren and 4 below Samitsu. In turn Samistu is 5 levels below Sashalle and struggles despite being placed in command. Cadsuane commands deference from everyone and is 5 levels higher than Merise, but Moiraine thinks to herself that when she is at full strength she won't be as disadvantaged (i.e. only 4 levels allows for Moiraine's level to at least have the expectation of politeness from a level 9 woman giving orders). This is further backed up by Meilyn and Kerene being only 1 and 2 levels below Cadsuane and showing no deference to her.

Thus, I suspect Siuan and Moiraine needed to be a minimum of 5 levels below Citalia to accept her clear orders, yet they couldn't have been much weaker than this for Moiraine to think Duhara on level 23 would still need to show her deference ... Thus 4 levels higher than Duhara

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 30/12/2015 at 04:54:47 PM
Reply to message
One Power strength: let's play with numbers - 18/12/2015 01:09:06 PM 2490 Views
Actually, I largely agree - 18/12/2015 03:33:27 PM 1183 Views
Yup ... note how silent he's been since the Companion came out *NM* - 18/12/2015 05:50:44 PM 667 Views
I've been silent because the Companion is a joke and hardly worth pointing out all the errors... - 19/12/2015 09:37:53 AM 1247 Views
Clearly there are mistakes in the Companion - 19/12/2015 03:28:49 PM 1209 Views
- 19/12/2015 05:52:29 PM 1140 Views
It is easy to accept the Companion. All you have to do is reject the evidence in the books. - 19/12/2015 06:58:41 PM 1189 Views
No... - 19/12/2015 08:59:58 PM 1183 Views
And let's not forget Mylen - 21/12/2015 09:07:27 PM 1247 Views
Splitting flows: the Great Aes Sedai mixup - 22/12/2015 01:34:54 AM 1742 Views
Re: Splitting flows: the Great Aes Sedai mixup - 22/12/2015 06:05:02 AM 1351 Views
I have a theory on why - 23/12/2015 05:26:52 PM 1019 Views
Re: I have a theory on why - 24/12/2015 09:44:44 AM 1071 Views
How I see Traveling... - 24/12/2015 11:35:30 PM 1115 Views
Re: How I see Traveling... - 26/12/2015 10:43:13 AM 1116 Views
Re: How I see Traveling... - 29/12/2015 02:34:58 AM 1111 Views
Re: How I see Traveling... - 30/12/2015 07:41:43 AM 1298 Views
Re: How I see Traveling... - 01/01/2016 08:33:34 PM 1115 Views
Some thoughts - 20/12/2015 09:29:28 AM 1147 Views
My response to your thoughts... - 20/12/2015 07:19:15 PM 1253 Views
My thoughts on your thoughts - 21/12/2015 02:34:38 PM 1033 Views
Re: My thoughts on your thoughts - 21/12/2015 08:55:40 PM 1093 Views
Re: Some thoughts - 22/12/2015 06:21:41 PM 1260 Views
No palpitations here ... I pretty much agree with all of this *NM* - 18/12/2015 05:50:08 PM 627 Views
Well this is inconvenient - 19/12/2015 07:38:30 AM 1045 Views
hahaha - 19/12/2015 03:09:41 PM 1087 Views
Moraine and Siuan level in NS - 30/12/2015 02:13:05 AM 1078 Views
Here are my thoughts - 30/12/2015 06:29:02 AM 1082 Views
They were the same strength... - 30/12/2015 06:55:18 AM 1133 Views
Thanks - 30/12/2015 07:44:22 AM 1001 Views
Not really strange... - 30/12/2015 08:02:04 AM 1136 Views
Siuan was also a wilder, she was sent to TV when the spark manifested - 30/12/2015 03:50:17 PM 1089 Views
Not sure that works - 30/12/2015 07:17:27 AM 1140 Views
Part of this is also about an individual's personality - 30/12/2015 04:40:28 PM 1404 Views
Re: Part of this is also about an individual's personality - 30/12/2015 05:10:50 PM 1174 Views
Re: Part of this is also about an individual's personality - 30/12/2015 05:52:41 PM 1117 Views
Re: Part of this is also about an individual's personality - 30/12/2015 06:15:36 PM 1233 Views
Totally - 30/12/2015 06:46:14 PM 1215 Views
On Rand and Ishamael - 01/01/2016 09:20:35 PM 1045 Views
Re: On Rand and Ishamael - 02/01/2016 01:18:07 AM 968 Views
True - 02/01/2016 05:39:12 AM 1131 Views
Re: True - 02/01/2016 07:52:33 PM 1049 Views
Re: True - 02/01/2016 10:56:39 PM 1091 Views
The more I look at this the more I think you are both right and wrong - 12/01/2016 09:02:57 PM 1142 Views

Reply to Message