Active Users:429 Time:15/11/2024 01:49:16 PM
Re: You people are the insane ones Cannoli Send a noteboard - 30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM


What the hell is a whole thing?
A contemporary idiom.
Now? Yes. Because the only point I'm trying to make is that arguing with you about Egwene is pointless. I'm not refuting specific points you make by resorting to ad hominem attacks. I'm arguing that trying to refute anything is meaningless, when it comes to this issue.
And you think that's better? You're ducking entire arguments, whole topics of conversation, by claiming I can't have a valid opinion because you disagree with me on it. You're claiming that being genocidal is better than homicidal.
Nice straw man. I never accused you of any such thing.
I never said you did, I was responding to a post by Sidious, where, in response to a common complaint I have made through the entire series, he chose to highlight a handful of incidents not only exclusively drawn from the books by Sanderson, but taking place after the majority of the series was over.

This just makes no sense. Saerin took a small bunch of Aes Sedai, used her authority as a Sitter, and made them not panic and do a basic job of defending their position. Not close to bad, but how the heck is this comparable to converting a bunch of Novices into a coherent fighting force,

She didn't! She simply drew on their strength. They didn't fight at all. She didn't teach them advanced techniques, she just leeched off their power. Not only that, these were women harshly disciplined into a total lack of agency. Giving orders to such people and making them obey is easier, which is why it is done to them in the first place. Saerin induced willful women used to fighting for every scrap of authority and autonomy they could get, to cooperate under her. If you think that the be all and end all of leadership is simply holding a title, that having legal authority all by itself is sufficient to get people to obey, you obviously haven't read the whole Wheel of Time series. If having a title makes leadership easy and undermines any accomplishments, Egwene has had the highest title, and did absolutely nothing before being randomly handed it, so YOU are the one who has been excessive in your praise for the whole series.



teaching them advanced techniques at a time of panic and chaos, then using that knowledge to let them hold various defensive positions while she herself mounted the most effective offense?
She DIDN'T mount an offense! She never fought except against attackers.

How is this what she did? She saw a critical weakness in the protection of the Tower's most destructive weapons: in a chaotic situation where no one was paying attention to the wards, anyone could weave a Gateway and take what they want... including Forsaken. Worse, Egwene's actions have just let the cat out of the bag.
So the possibility that a handful of people Egwene has just learned are petty and contemptible could get their hands on a little more power, is justification for crippling the entire Tower?
What do you want her to do? Do the equivalent of posting the nuclear codes on the internet for everyone to see so that in case of emergency someone can use them, never mind that someone can in fact cause the emergency by stealing a sa'angreal?
No, I am asking her to NOT lock up all the guns, AFTER the war has already broken out. You're comparing items that merely alter the degree of effectiveness to strategic weapons, but I'M the one who is distorting things. Okay. Sure.

She had them hidden, and unlike Elaida, had no illusions of the Tower being invulnerable. In an emergency, the people in the know could access the sa'angreal and distribute them. We're not made privy to any emergency plans she put in place, Sanderson being Sanderson,

In the first place, Sanderson being Sanderson, how can you credit anything characters do under his watch, and in the second, Aes Sedai being Aes Sedai, it's a pretty good bet there are no sensible emergency plans. The Salidar group is much more free of stagnant mentalities and more open to reforms, but their whole plan for responding to an attack by the Forsaken or Seanchan or anyone at all is "Form circles!"
but if you think it is in her character to not account for this possibility, then you are once again distorting and misrepresenting to suit your bias.
Your assumption that she IS doing something unprecedented is just as much a factor of your bias, as my assumption that she is not doing something she has never done before. On the contrary, Egwene has a history of overreacting, for which you and your kind make allowances. Her murder of the helpless sul'dam for one thing.




This is a flat out lie. She overdrew because she was exactly matched with Taim. She needed the extra power to push through his Balefire. Once that was done, she could have released the Source and hoped that all that happened was that she burned out, and then Mat would have been left with 400 odd Sharan channelers to deal with, AND the world would have had a new Bore to contend with right as Rand was at the cusp of complete defeat in the Dark One's hands. Or she could draw in even more amounts of the OP, and destroy the Sharans and close the new hole in the Pattern in one swoop, consequences to herself be damned.
Still not her choice to make.
with no evidence in her PoV that she was even considering her own place in history or how this moment would be viewed!
Only her own SPEECH. She had a past history of doing exactly that. Rand, who is constantly predicting her responses with accuracy and seeing right through her, comes to the same conclusion.
Isn't that textbook bias? You have concluded she is a megalomaniac, so of course she must be, so the lack of evidence doesn't matter, because... you said so?
That's exactly what you are doing. Egwene is good, therefore anything she did that works out well was done with the best of intentions, and anything she did that is half-assed and incomplete, she fixed behind the scenes, despite no indication whatsoever of her doing so. And anyone who disagrees is dismissed as insane and irrational.

Yet another straw man. Please tell me where I said Egwene killing captured Aes Sedai was a good thing,

What the hell are you talking about? She didn't kill any captured sisters, unless they were on the to'raken she shot down, in which case she is not remotely morally capable. She didn't put them on the to'raken, so it is not her fault if they die when she kills the flyers. Are you saying that she WAS wrong to do so? Because THAT is crazy.
or in character, for that matter. Where did I say that holding these positions makes you rabid?



EDIT: I see now my prior comment lined up under the wrong post. I thought I was responding to Sidious because he was last on the thread.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Cannoli on 30/12/2015 at 11:55:55 AM
Reply to message
Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 26/12/2015 08:46:07 PM 2109 Views
My answers - 27/12/2015 02:55:35 AM 1067 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 27/12/2015 04:42:28 PM 1168 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 27/12/2015 09:01:33 PM 1127 Views
Black Ajah - 28/12/2015 02:44:04 AM 1059 Views
Mine - 27/12/2015 10:39:08 PM 1209 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 12:57:23 AM 1098 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 09:51:54 AM 944 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 02:02:33 PM 996 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 12:40:49 PM 1395 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 01:53:00 PM 1203 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 11:35:09 AM 1033 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 05:12:46 PM 1073 Views
So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 04:26:47 PM 1260 Views
Re: So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM 1086 Views
Why do you bother? *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:23:10 AM 619 Views
Seriously... - 29/12/2015 01:30:34 AM 1099 Views
Sadly I have to agree - 29/12/2015 08:46:58 AM 1123 Views
You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 11:21:24 AM 1142 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 12:10:51 PM 1175 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:25:09 AM 1130 Views
Yet it's Mesaana who forces the head to head confrontation with Egwene - 30/12/2015 05:25:00 PM 1134 Views
I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 02:53:14 AM 951 Views
Re: I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 06:28:33 AM 1086 Views
Damn stupid WoT, never working out the way you think it should! - 04/01/2016 01:38:45 AM 1131 Views
So you agree, Egwene eliminated on of the Forsaken in a direct conflict - 04/01/2016 03:28:35 AM 993 Views
Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 07:17:20 AM 1168 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 03:59:18 PM 1071 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 04:19:00 PM 1117 Views
Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 04:28:00 PM 1163 Views
Re: Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 07:05:27 PM 1235 Views
That's not the worst argument given how lame many of them were - 04/01/2016 06:37:44 PM 1139 Views
Uh oh - 04/01/2016 07:03:08 PM 1579 Views
*grabs Dewars* *NM* - 04/01/2016 08:24:05 PM 724 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 06:22:02 PM 1253 Views
Apparently, Egwene shouldn't have killed the Sharans... - 31/12/2015 02:56:08 AM 1181 Views
it's just an excuse to not give credit to a character he doesn't like - 31/12/2015 04:44:17 AM 1337 Views
Exactly. The double standard has always existed in Cannoli's rants. - 31/12/2015 05:31:42 AM 1264 Views
Yes well I've only recently started to realize how distasteful it is - 31/12/2015 06:27:26 AM 1269 Views
Wow... the board was alive 5 years ago! - 31/12/2015 08:34:03 AM 1234 Views
LOL ... Someday you'll come to realize how right we were!!! *NM* - 31/12/2015 05:23:18 PM 737 Views
How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 08:05:38 AM 1347 Views
Re: How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 10:49:20 AM 1395 Views
You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... - 31/12/2015 07:09:55 PM 1250 Views
Offended? No, I find it funny, in a needs medication way - 31/12/2015 07:50:28 PM 1103 Views
It is possible - 01/01/2016 05:59:51 AM 1220 Views
It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 06:53:27 AM 1199 Views
Re: It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 08:43:43 AM 1140 Views
She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 01:49:37 AM 1214 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 04:16:39 AM 1184 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 08/01/2016 10:33:22 PM 1140 Views
Fair enough - 01/01/2016 09:31:47 AM 970 Views
Where did I say someone who reads his posts are dumb or something? - 01/01/2016 05:15:30 PM 942 Views
Not directly - 01/01/2016 09:09:05 PM 1041 Views
And yet I'm being told I'm the one acting offended - 02/01/2016 01:15:15 AM 918 Views
See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 06:20:16 PM 1013 Views
Re: See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 07:25:38 PM 1092 Views
Okay, Mark, all kidding and stuff aside, you're being the asshole, here. - 02/01/2016 03:49:08 AM 1115 Views
Okay... - 02/01/2016 04:50:24 AM 1058 Views
About insults... - 02/01/2016 05:04:47 AM 1010 Views
I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 02/01/2016 07:39:43 PM 982 Views
Re: I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 03/01/2016 10:39:10 AM 1021 Views
LOL ... Love it *NM* - 03/01/2016 04:17:02 PM 542 Views
Re: Okay... - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM 1296 Views
Um, I think you are going a bit far with your assumptions - 01/01/2016 07:35:23 PM 985 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 02:13:32 PM 1023 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM 1273 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 05:07:09 PM 1127 Views
My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:32:51 AM 1015 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:47:58 AM 1071 Views
Thanks - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM 988 Views
One thing... - 01/01/2016 06:42:10 AM 943 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 08:49:00 AM 957 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 01:40:21 PM 1013 Views
Interesting - 01/01/2016 09:18:43 AM 985 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 05:29:38 PM 1006 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 06:50:26 PM 944 Views
Or perhaps a mixed circle could figure it out - 01/01/2016 07:40:02 PM 924 Views
Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 01/01/2016 09:10:26 PM 984 Views
Re: Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 02/01/2016 01:13:05 AM 981 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 02/01/2016 02:10:44 AM 1204 Views
Here we go with the selective criticisms again... - 02/01/2016 04:23:47 AM 1064 Views
It's not selective to point out legitimate differences in circumstances. - 02/01/2016 12:25:07 PM 1250 Views
not true, the Sul'dam's mission was to capture or kill as many marath'damane as they could - 02/01/2016 08:49:28 PM 960 Views
How are they supposed to do that without a'dam? - 04/01/2016 01:45:52 AM 1087 Views
enemy combatant in an active hot zone - 04/01/2016 03:34:15 AM 966 Views
Only if they were germane to the issue... - 03/01/2016 09:32:22 AM 930 Views
Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:22:12 PM 991 Views
Re: Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:56:35 PM 1126 Views
Cheers - 03/01/2016 09:50:41 PM 908 Views
Re: Cheers - 03/01/2016 10:35:34 PM 1060 Views
Re: Only if they were germane to the issue... - 04/01/2016 07:15:58 AM 1002 Views
Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 12:29:58 PM 1310 Views
Re: Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 02:41:19 PM 1196 Views
Interesting... - 28/12/2015 02:31:33 PM 1047 Views
Re Perrin - 29/12/2015 07:24:41 AM 1110 Views
Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 08:26:18 AM 1254 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 01:44:53 PM 1076 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 07/01/2016 12:24:28 AM 1316 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:40:03 PM 856 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:44:10 PM 831 Views
Overrated characters - 06/02/2016 04:24:55 PM 874 Views

Reply to Message