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Re: So about Egwene... Cannoli Send a noteboard - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM


1. Egwene saved the WT from the Seanchan. Without her there is zero doubt that the whole Tower would have been enslaved as damane.
With or without her, there is zero possibility that the Tower would have been enslaved. They were RAIDING. They came to grab as many mareth'damane they could fit on the backs of their flock of to'raken and fly home, while causing as much damage as they practically could. Slaughtering every person on the premises they did not carry off would only have resulted in the death or chaining of no more than a quarter of the Tower, maybe 30% at worst. There would be an absolutely majority of the Tower surviving, consisting of hundreds of Aes Sedai, at least one organized body capable of electing an Amyrlin, and the overwhelming majority of novices, including many of the strongest and most promising. And that's a worst case scenario.

Egwene no more saved the Tower in that incident than the most heroic NY firefighter saved the city on 9-11. Namely, she did not, at all. She did a bunch of damage control, she saved some lives that might otherwise not have been saved, she was in position to do ANYTHING because of the fortuitous bubble of evil transposing her quarters to the actual Tower itself, and she committed inexcusable murder along the way, that is actually much worse on her hands, considering her own presumption to lecture others on violating the Three Oaths, or assuming the guilt of people she has not seen in months. I will grant that the murders in question might simply have been Sandersonian imbecility, but as depicted in the book, they were exactly that.

Saerin actually displayed greater leadership during the crisis, while Egwene herself would take steps to ensure that no one could do what she did, by stashing the -greal where no one else could hastily grab them in an emergency.

The irony is that the greatest harm of the Seanchan raid, which made the whole affair a resounding success according to the parameters the set out for the mission in their briefing of Tuon, was due entirely to Egwene's blunder making Traveling available to the loyalist sisters, and the Seanchan capturing Elaida and gaining her knowledge themselves. That alone would make the proposed raid a success, according to the Seanchan mission brief, and they got it.



2. Egwene destroyed Mesaana.
Egwene used a whole army of people to fight Mesaana, including three women who claimed greater skill in T'A'R than the Forsaken (at least one of whom embarrassed Egwene herself during the fight), and she only succeeded because Perrin dumped the dreamspike there, otherwise Mesaana would have E&E the way Egwene assumed she would in terror of Egwene's arrival in the Tower as the real Amyrlin Seat. It's an accomplishment to be sure, but hardly impressive coming so late after Nynaeve, with less training and fewer allies, defeated her more formidable compatriot. You yourself acknowledged back then that she won because she was so firmly fixed on an errant idea.
3. Egwene killed M'Hael.
It was a battle. Someone would have done for him at some point or other (especially if they had the opportunity to go after him with one of the most powerful sa'angreal known to exist) and all they did was throw power at one another. From another point of view, if Egwene is all that her fans make her out to be, M'hael came out ahead in that fight, since he removed an indispensable piece from the roster of the Light, at the cost of a minor & inexperienced Chosen. The weird thing is the emphasis on killing M'hael, when countering the balefire effect would count, I would think, as much more significant and impressive. Had she found a way to do so safely, that might have finally been a One Power feat to rank with Nynaeve's Healings. Her willingness to destroy herself because of her own sufferings degrades the nobility from the achievement, however.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 26/12/2015 08:46:07 PM 2330 Views
My answers - 27/12/2015 02:55:35 AM 1288 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 27/12/2015 04:42:28 PM 1389 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 27/12/2015 09:01:33 PM 1346 Views
Black Ajah - 28/12/2015 02:44:04 AM 1320 Views
Mine - 27/12/2015 10:39:08 PM 1441 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 12:57:23 AM 1325 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 09:51:54 AM 1175 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 02:02:33 PM 1208 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 12:40:49 PM 1627 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 01:53:00 PM 1421 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 11:35:09 AM 1269 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 05:12:46 PM 1298 Views
So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 04:26:47 PM 1496 Views
Re: So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM 1323 Views
Why do you bother? *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:23:10 AM 753 Views
Seriously... - 29/12/2015 01:30:34 AM 1312 Views
Sadly I have to agree - 29/12/2015 08:46:58 AM 1343 Views
You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 11:21:24 AM 1361 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 12:10:51 PM 1412 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:25:09 AM 1363 Views
Yet it's Mesaana who forces the head to head confrontation with Egwene - 30/12/2015 05:25:00 PM 1356 Views
I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 02:53:14 AM 1167 Views
Re: I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 06:28:33 AM 1307 Views
Damn stupid WoT, never working out the way you think it should! - 04/01/2016 01:38:45 AM 1338 Views
So you agree, Egwene eliminated on of the Forsaken in a direct conflict - 04/01/2016 03:28:35 AM 1200 Views
Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 07:17:20 AM 1392 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 03:59:18 PM 1314 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 04:19:00 PM 1333 Views
Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 04:28:00 PM 1372 Views
Re: Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 07:05:27 PM 1610 Views
That's not the worst argument given how lame many of them were - 04/01/2016 06:37:44 PM 1382 Views
Uh oh - 04/01/2016 07:03:08 PM 1936 Views
*grabs Dewars* *NM* - 04/01/2016 08:24:05 PM 857 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 06:22:02 PM 1468 Views
Apparently, Egwene shouldn't have killed the Sharans... - 31/12/2015 02:56:08 AM 1399 Views
it's just an excuse to not give credit to a character he doesn't like - 31/12/2015 04:44:17 AM 1557 Views
Exactly. The double standard has always existed in Cannoli's rants. - 31/12/2015 05:31:42 AM 1484 Views
Yes well I've only recently started to realize how distasteful it is - 31/12/2015 06:27:26 AM 1503 Views
Wow... the board was alive 5 years ago! - 31/12/2015 08:34:03 AM 1449 Views
LOL ... Someday you'll come to realize how right we were!!! *NM* - 31/12/2015 05:23:18 PM 888 Views
How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 08:05:38 AM 1582 Views
Re: How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 10:49:20 AM 1637 Views
You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... - 31/12/2015 07:09:55 PM 1467 Views
Offended? No, I find it funny, in a needs medication way - 31/12/2015 07:50:28 PM 1327 Views
It is possible - 01/01/2016 05:59:51 AM 1458 Views
It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 06:53:27 AM 1427 Views
Re: It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 08:43:43 AM 1374 Views
She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 01:49:37 AM 1432 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 04:16:39 AM 1408 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 08/01/2016 10:33:22 PM 1369 Views
Fair enough - 01/01/2016 09:31:47 AM 1200 Views
Where did I say someone who reads his posts are dumb or something? - 01/01/2016 05:15:30 PM 1173 Views
Not directly - 01/01/2016 09:09:05 PM 1260 Views
And yet I'm being told I'm the one acting offended - 02/01/2016 01:15:15 AM 1165 Views
See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 06:20:16 PM 1232 Views
Re: See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 07:25:38 PM 1329 Views
Okay, Mark, all kidding and stuff aside, you're being the asshole, here. - 02/01/2016 03:49:08 AM 1325 Views
Okay... - 02/01/2016 04:50:24 AM 1268 Views
About insults... - 02/01/2016 05:04:47 AM 1222 Views
I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 02/01/2016 07:39:43 PM 1216 Views
Re: I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 03/01/2016 10:39:10 AM 1252 Views
LOL ... Love it *NM* - 03/01/2016 04:17:02 PM 695 Views
Re: Okay... - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM 1512 Views
Um, I think you are going a bit far with your assumptions - 01/01/2016 07:35:23 PM 1208 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 02:13:32 PM 1242 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM 1507 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 05:07:09 PM 1358 Views
My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:32:51 AM 1246 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:47:58 AM 1296 Views
Thanks - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM 1200 Views
One thing... - 01/01/2016 06:42:10 AM 1148 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 08:49:00 AM 1176 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 01:40:21 PM 1231 Views
Interesting - 01/01/2016 09:18:43 AM 1213 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 05:29:38 PM 1228 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 06:50:26 PM 1155 Views
Or perhaps a mixed circle could figure it out - 01/01/2016 07:40:02 PM 1151 Views
Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 01/01/2016 09:10:26 PM 1206 Views
Re: Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 02/01/2016 01:13:05 AM 1200 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 02/01/2016 02:10:44 AM 1425 Views
Here we go with the selective criticisms again... - 02/01/2016 04:23:47 AM 1279 Views
It's not selective to point out legitimate differences in circumstances. - 02/01/2016 12:25:07 PM 1471 Views
not true, the Sul'dam's mission was to capture or kill as many marath'damane as they could - 02/01/2016 08:49:28 PM 1190 Views
How are they supposed to do that without a'dam? - 04/01/2016 01:45:52 AM 1305 Views
enemy combatant in an active hot zone - 04/01/2016 03:34:15 AM 1190 Views
Only if they were germane to the issue... - 03/01/2016 09:32:22 AM 1165 Views
Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:22:12 PM 1190 Views
Re: Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:56:35 PM 1346 Views
Cheers - 03/01/2016 09:50:41 PM 1126 Views
Re: Cheers - 03/01/2016 10:35:34 PM 1276 Views
Re: Only if they were germane to the issue... - 04/01/2016 07:15:58 AM 1244 Views
Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 12:29:58 PM 1529 Views
Re: Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 02:41:19 PM 1419 Views
Interesting... - 28/12/2015 02:31:33 PM 1270 Views
Re Perrin - 29/12/2015 07:24:41 AM 1325 Views
Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 08:26:18 AM 1458 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 01:44:53 PM 1311 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 07/01/2016 12:24:28 AM 1552 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:40:03 PM 1074 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:44:10 PM 1043 Views
Overrated characters - 06/02/2016 04:24:55 PM 1085 Views

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