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Re: Some things to consider - Edit 1

Before modification by Sidious at 12/12/2015 06:27:53 AM



It's based on every channeler stronger than Moiraine.

Every channeler? What particular Talents or skills have Terava, Someryn, Mesaana, Tamela, Viendre, Meilyn, Kerene and Edarra shown? We've spent a reasonable amount of time around some of these women. And I'm not saying they are devoid of skill or Talents, but what particular ones of theirs makes you say everyone above Moiraine is very skilled and has many Talents?
So out of the 37 people who are stronger than Moiraine you pick 8 who might not have Talents. Remember that they can all Travel, so you are already wrong about that whole list. So 20% of the people above Moiraine have no verifiable Talent, and 80% do.

The fact that he was a Forsaken is some indication, no? The 13 that survived were the best, for the most part, with internal gradations. You don't get to be Forsaken if you have no skill.

The 13 were at a regional meeting, some of them were the best, others were not. But I get your point. There is no doubt that Aginor was highly useful to the Shadow.
Any of the Red Belted Kinswomen, Suana, Dagdara... need I keep on?

Oh yes, the list of women who can "Heal". The type that makes Moghedien giggle like a paint mixer.
And the major character thing isn't a cop out. Because if I were to restrict my sample to that, I can also claim that no one who is ugly can channel great amounts of the OP. Looking at just the same characters you are, can we conclude that either being a strong channeler makes you good looking, or only good looking people can channel large amounts of the OP.

Well I do have a problem with so many of the main characters being good looking, so thanks for mentioning it. There are a lot of very beautiful channelers and average looking ones, but very few ugly ones. Hesselam is almost the only truly ugly person of any kind in this series.


I'll match your meaningless caveat too. I see a trend, not a rule...

Sure, if you want to be mean, then by all means. Considering the OP affects aging and vitality so much it's a possibility I'm open to.


What is the connection to strength in the OP, here? First of all, only 9 sisters in the entire Rebel camp could make Cuendillar. If the majority were Yellow, the sample is still too small to make conclusions. But even ignoring that, who said these Yellows were strong in OP strength?

Strength in a flow, strength in the Power - it's all in the same vane because it's innate power without practice, as you claim. Anyway you have gone on about sample size before and you right, but then we shouldn't discuss anything in the series. There are maybe a few thousand channelers and far fewer who we know about, we know jack about the Power with such a small sample.


The very best at making Cuendillar, Egwene and Leane, have little to no Healing ability. The Companion even says this outright:
Although Leane had fairly small ability with Healing, she seemed to have the greatest ability with metals after Egwene

So what point have you proven?


What point have you proven...? That not all channelers have all Talents? Congratulations, I'm sure that's a theory that no one has. Of course Leane is stronger than most women, and has a Talent, so there you go.
Precisely. The only thing that mattered was practice. Not some innate ability. Talent lets you skip the need for practice, but barring that, skill only comes from practice, not as a side benefit of being stronger in the OP.

So Nynaeve has not been useful as a channeler in this series with her minimal practice and training? Apart from Healing.



Only when the battle was restricted to a pure strength duel. She copied Egwene's weave against Amico, and Modhedien's weave to stop it. That's all. There was no extraordinary skill at play here.

I thought the Forsaken were extraordinary...



This is both ludicrous and false. Cadsuane did not say "so you see and copy". Cadsuane says:
“So you watch,” she said to Alivia.

Then why does Cadsuane mention it? Does she think that Alivia walks beside her and doesn't see anything. How moronic is that of Cadsuane?


There is no indication that Cadsuane is surprised that someone who watches can copy a weave.

And yet Cadsuane refuses to teach Alivia and channels openly around her.


Uhh.. WHAT? Are you insane? Cyndane used her superior skill to not just match a woman much much stronger than her, she handily beat her. Alivia ended that fight with her hand broken and burned to the bone. Even if Alivia had held her own, it doesn't mean strength is "a type of skill". Because if Alivia had Cyndane's skill, she'd have finished her easily.

You're having a seizure instead of seeing it from the other side. Cyndane is highly power and skilled with saidar. Alivia is only strong. By using an angreal she can survive her encounter with Cyndane. Therefore a strength boost provided her with 'skill'. I agree that Cyndane would have died if Alivia had her skill, but how pointless is that assertion. That's like wishing that Nynaeve had Graendal's skill.


Even with a sa'angreal Egwene would be no better at Healing. They use angreal because you can use more of the OP that way, and also because you get less tired if strength comes from an angreal rather than yourself.

There is no evidence to back that up. People who have no Talent for travelling use an angreal and can then Travel. Access to greater levels of saidar may provide small bridges to augment weak Talents. We have seen Verin use an angreal to improve her chances with a form of Compulsion. I'm not saying that if Egwene used Vora's wand she would be Semirhage, because you and Darius always take my examples and put them to the extreme to make me look stupid. Samitsu can Heal as well as a full circle... more saidar, more ability.


There's also memories leaking from Lews Therin, there, completely removing Rand as a reasonable candidate for this discussion.

Okay the LTT card... fine then.
Sorilea stiffened at the comment, but let it go. She rewove the ward against listening, then paused, and placed the globes of light in front of Semirhage’s eyes as well. Yes, she was weak in the Power, but she was a very quick learner.

I thought this was "standard" and easy among channelers?


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