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You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM

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at least the ones that also include OP weaves, they are almost always shown as something the channeler does on an almost instinctual level. Nynaeve's healing ability, which Sumeko and Flinn both also basically discovered, Elayne's ability with ter'angreal, Neald suddenly figuring out how to make weapons, Androl making gateways despite not having anywhere near the strength to even bother to learn the weave. All of these Talents are shown as somehow connected to the person's personality in other ways as well. Androl was well traveled, Nynaeve and the others were always drawn toward healing, even Semirhage's sadism could be seen as linked (in a horribly negative way) to her Talent. Graendal's controlling nature leading her to Compulsion's various forms, which may also be connected to a Talent. Even Verin's healing ability being vastly stronger in the diagnostic arena fits her curious nature much more than an actual healing abilty.



No this is really just an attempt to make the Talent fit the channeler. You must be able to switch ot around too. Is Graendal the only controlling Forsaken... Shouldn't Lanfear and Demandred also be good at Compulsion? Same for all the others. Seriously though, many people in our own world are born with Talents that they use or don't use. People who are good at sport don't always gravitate that way. Sometimes they reject it. It's likely its nice to be good with something as a channeler... The effects can be profound, as well as the notoriety. In fact, there is no good link to Semirhage's Talent with Healing and her sadism. She should hate the Talent, but it made her world famous and gave her fame and power, so she used it. Androl and Berowin are examples of people with truly amazing Talents, and I think their history isn't significant. I think you are raising a chicken and egg scenario, which might have merit but I doubt it.

There are many problems with your previous post. Semirhage may be weaker in weather but according to what... Then rest of the Forsaken who are all among the best channelers in memory? I'm pretty sure Semirhage could conjure up something that no one in the WT could match, and that Asmodean was referring to single channelers who could create tempests and earthquakes to the same degree that she could Heal. Semirhage's "simple" act of dissolving Cabriana's clothes made the AS panic it was so complex and it's hardly a Talent, so compared to a Windfinder she might not be too bad.

When you can transform hundreds of tons of iron into cuendillar in seconds like Egwene can then it's a significant Talent. So while I agree that everyone has every Talent, it is only really remarkable when it's effects are profound and disproportionate, so no one has a Talent until they are awesome by peer review.

Your own list shows that strong people have more Talents. Forget Semirhage, we have seen Rand, Ishamael and Lanfear use Healing. Rand says his ability is weak and he's not interested in it, but he's at least average in ability. Rand has made it rain in the desert, and Ishamael has conjured up similar weaves. Only LTT, Ishamael and Semirhage can block gateways. Funny how Moiraine says that there aren't ten women in Tar Valon who can make fog follow a river like she can. She's the strongest non-retired Aes Sedai and she has this ability as well as Healing. This does not mean that weak people don't have Talents, but strong people sure do get a lot right in this series!


RJ certainly went out of his way to show us that Talents and personality traits go hand in hand ... doesn't really matter if it's driven by Talent or the other way around, the point is the author wrote it into nearly every character in one way or another. It's obvious he wanted us to see that there was a relationship between OP abilities/Talent and personalities.

I think it's pretty obvious that Semirhage had limited ability with weather in a broader scope here. What point of mentioning it in the context of weakness if she was still effective at it? And why would she hate the very Talent that enabled her to "take her pleasures"? Without her high level Talent she would have been forced into much more mundane techniques, like Temaile was, to fulfill her sadism. What she did was a twisted reflection of Healing. According to RJ, IIRC, she was already far gone before the bore was even drilled.

Let's look at the other major strength channelers with NO Talents:

Asmodean
Sammael
Mesaana
Be'lal

30% of the Forsaken had no major or minor Talent and Lanfear shows only 1 as does Moghedien and Graendal. Maybe, Rhavin and Demandred might have a single Talent each, Compulsion and Traveling respectively, and Semihage might have had a second Talent with Traveling, but it's never 100% confirmed.

Ishamael uses the TP almost exclusively so nothing he does can be called a Talent of the OP.

I think you are conflating Skill with Talent to be honest.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3238 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 956 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 940 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1078 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 983 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1071 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1082 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1272 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 930 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1070 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1111 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1041 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1122 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1080 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1228 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1187 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1199 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 994 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1232 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1065 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 926 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1200 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1058 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1148 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1212 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1003 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1135 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1004 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 941 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 952 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 965 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 991 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1041 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 943 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1173 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 972 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 922 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 953 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 596 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 988 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1023 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 933 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 963 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 943 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 647 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 965 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 936 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1133 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 999 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1031 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1061 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1060 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 991 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1008 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1073 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 913 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 932 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1131 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 971 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1059 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1106 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 914 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 961 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 913 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 902 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 944 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 962 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1133 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1083 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1127 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1316 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 985 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1161 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 861 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 920 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 860 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 870 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1140 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 991 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1320 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 876 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1097 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 943 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 844 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 869 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 940 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 900 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 901 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 609 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 962 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 820 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 973 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 529 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 563 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 968 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 920 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 897 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 901 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 864 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 814 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 865 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 902 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 829 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 858 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 942 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 854 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 966 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1045 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 905 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 937 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 876 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 970 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 877 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 918 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 908 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 877 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 889 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 860 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 888 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 808 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 925 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 569 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 890 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 855 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 942 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 886 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 921 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 886 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 815 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 866 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 855 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 903 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 835 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1017 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 946 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1012 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 879 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 857 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 878 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1026 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 908 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 908 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1026 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1072 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1079 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 842 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 996 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 915 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 855 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 997 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 942 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 815 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 967 Views

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