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Several reasons ... Edited for clarity darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM

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First I'll start by saying I think these women are all about 10 levels too strong from the way they were depicted in the books. With the possible exception of Liandrin herself, who could plausibly be as strong as was outlined in the Companion.

Liandrin, Red, Level 14, age 36, Tarabon, captive to the Seanchan

Marillin Gemalphin, Brown, level 15, age 152, Andoran, freed by Mellar fate unknown
Eldrith Jhondar, Brown, level 16, age 116, Amadician, killed by Mellar

Falion Bhoda, White, level 17, age 127, Kandori, Killed by Aviendha
Rianna Andomeran, White, level 21, age 76, Kandori, Captive in Stedding Sholoon

Ispan Shefar, Blue, level 17, age 109, Taraboner, Killed by Careane
Berylla Naron, Blue, level 27, age 67, Illianer, MIA since Moghedien gave her orders

Temaile Kinderode, Gray, level 17, age 57, Cairheinin, Killed by Mellar
Joiya Byir, Gray, level 28, age 171, Andoran, Killed by Slayer

Asne Zeramene, Green, level 18, age 163, Saldaean, Killed by Windfinders
Jeaine Caide, Green, level 18, age 88, Domani, Killed by Thom Merrilin

Chesmal Emery, Yellow, level 18, age 137, Ghealdanin, Killed by Elayne
Amico Nagoyin, Yellow, level 27, age 32, Arafellin, Killed by Slayer


Why do you think they are too strong by 10 levels? What depiction? They were always depicted as average sort of Aes Sedai and their acts and abilities reflected such. Liandrin was mentioned as the strongest - I was surprised at 14 but it's not outrageous.


First Liandrin, was the strongest, yet she was never really mentioned as being particularly strong by Aes Sedai standards, so a placement at 14 was surprising to me, but as I said in the original post about this it's still plausible, more so given that her main role as an antagonist was in the earliest part of the series when strength was not as clearly defined. I simply got the impression that she was more of a middle level Aes Sedai. Middling Aes Sedai are women like Aeldene, on level 27 not level 14-18, that's the providence of "strong" Aes Sedai.

As for the others, their strength was universally dismissed when it came up. To find out that 9 out of the 13 are strong enough to Travel and that at least 3 of them are in the very top levels (16+) of Aes Sedai strength and 3 others at level 17 is a glaring mismatch to how they were seen in the books. On several occasions we are told that the girls are already stronger than any of them in raw power, something patently false in the early stages for Elayne and Egwene. Neither of whom are as strong as Liandrin's stated level 14 until at least the end of TSR. Only Amico, Joiya and Berylla seem in the range of how they were described in the books IMO. And given Verin's reaction to Katerine's escape "a Red of her strength", Katerine is weaker than Liandrin and the same as Marillin? Seems out of sync. Also Elayne, while often stupidly brave, now looks like an even bigger fool for rushing in to face such powerful Aes Sedai, everyone of the one left was strong enough to Travel and then some ...

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 11/12/2015 at 08:01:21 PM
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3294 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1036 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1031 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1169 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1067 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1148 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1166 Views
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Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1191 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1139 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1209 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1167 Views
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Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1271 Views
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Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1315 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1163 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1016 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1284 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1144 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1239 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1316 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1086 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1211 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1086 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1018 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1051 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1049 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1087 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1134 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1043 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1276 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1079 Views
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Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1110 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1024 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1034 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1056 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 689 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1050 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1021 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1213 Views
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Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1120 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1145 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1139 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1087 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1105 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1158 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 995 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1030 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1214 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1057 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1143 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1193 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 999 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1068 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 998 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 993 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1033 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1043 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1218 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1168 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1205 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1410 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1073 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1244 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 943 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1017 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 953 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 948 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1241 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1074 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1402 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 955 Views
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Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1031 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 923 Views
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That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 988 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 993 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 661 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1056 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 876 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1067 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 567 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 602 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1057 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1007 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 964 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 982 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 954 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 895 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 952 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 995 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 915 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 944 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1034 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 935 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1052 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1141 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 998 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1022 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 960 Views
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Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 926 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1009 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 996 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 957 Views
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Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 947 Views
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I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 898 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1016 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 611 Views
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Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 940 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1022 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 976 Views
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Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 913 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 950 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 957 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 965 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 926 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1105 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1027 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1116 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 957 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 939 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 967 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1114 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 999 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1000 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1119 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1166 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1166 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 934 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1077 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1000 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 945 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1076 Views
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Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 908 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1063 Views

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