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Several reasons ... Edited for clarity darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM

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First I'll start by saying I think these women are all about 10 levels too strong from the way they were depicted in the books. With the possible exception of Liandrin herself, who could plausibly be as strong as was outlined in the Companion.

Liandrin, Red, Level 14, age 36, Tarabon, captive to the Seanchan

Marillin Gemalphin, Brown, level 15, age 152, Andoran, freed by Mellar fate unknown
Eldrith Jhondar, Brown, level 16, age 116, Amadician, killed by Mellar

Falion Bhoda, White, level 17, age 127, Kandori, Killed by Aviendha
Rianna Andomeran, White, level 21, age 76, Kandori, Captive in Stedding Sholoon

Ispan Shefar, Blue, level 17, age 109, Taraboner, Killed by Careane
Berylla Naron, Blue, level 27, age 67, Illianer, MIA since Moghedien gave her orders

Temaile Kinderode, Gray, level 17, age 57, Cairheinin, Killed by Mellar
Joiya Byir, Gray, level 28, age 171, Andoran, Killed by Slayer

Asne Zeramene, Green, level 18, age 163, Saldaean, Killed by Windfinders
Jeaine Caide, Green, level 18, age 88, Domani, Killed by Thom Merrilin

Chesmal Emery, Yellow, level 18, age 137, Ghealdanin, Killed by Elayne
Amico Nagoyin, Yellow, level 27, age 32, Arafellin, Killed by Slayer


Why do you think they are too strong by 10 levels? What depiction? They were always depicted as average sort of Aes Sedai and their acts and abilities reflected such. Liandrin was mentioned as the strongest - I was surprised at 14 but it's not outrageous.


First Liandrin, was the strongest, yet she was never really mentioned as being particularly strong by Aes Sedai standards, so a placement at 14 was surprising to me, but as I said in the original post about this it's still plausible, more so given that her main role as an antagonist was in the earliest part of the series when strength was not as clearly defined. I simply got the impression that she was more of a middle level Aes Sedai. Middling Aes Sedai are women like Aeldene, on level 27 not level 14-18, that's the providence of "strong" Aes Sedai.

As for the others, their strength was universally dismissed when it came up. To find out that 9 out of the 13 are strong enough to Travel and that at least 3 of them are in the very top levels (16+) of Aes Sedai strength and 3 others at level 17 is a glaring mismatch to how they were seen in the books. On several occasions we are told that the girls are already stronger than any of them in raw power, something patently false in the early stages for Elayne and Egwene. Neither of whom are as strong as Liandrin's stated level 14 until at least the end of TSR. Only Amico, Joiya and Berylla seem in the range of how they were described in the books IMO. And given Verin's reaction to Katerine's escape "a Red of her strength", Katerine is weaker than Liandrin and the same as Marillin? Seems out of sync. Also Elayne, while often stupidly brave, now looks like an even bigger fool for rushing in to face such powerful Aes Sedai, everyone of the one left was strong enough to Travel and then some ...

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 11/12/2015 at 08:01:21 PM
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3249 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 964 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 951 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1092 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 991 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1079 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1090 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1282 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 945 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1082 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1121 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1059 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1133 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1090 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1239 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1198 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1208 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1007 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1241 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1075 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 941 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1215 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1068 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1162 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1228 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1011 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1145 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1019 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 950 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 964 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 977 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1003 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1052 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 954 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1187 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 980 Views
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It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 964 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 599 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 998 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1033 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 943 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 972 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 953 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 651 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 975 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 948 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1145 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1010 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1040 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1077 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1072 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1002 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1017 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1083 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 925 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 944 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1144 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 977 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1070 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1115 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 923 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 972 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 923 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 915 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 954 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 969 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1146 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1095 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1136 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1330 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1004 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1176 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 873 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 929 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 871 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 883 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1156 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1001 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1332 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 883 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1108 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 953 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 852 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 880 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 948 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 909 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 915 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 611 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 974 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 833 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 983 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 532 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 565 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 980 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 933 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 906 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 910 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 873 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 823 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 879 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 915 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 837 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 867 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 955 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 863 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 978 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1058 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 915 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 946 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 886 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 982 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 886 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 928 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 919 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 887 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 898 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 874 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 897 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 818 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 936 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 576 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 902 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 866 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 954 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 898 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 929 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 894 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 827 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 879 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 868 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 917 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 845 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1031 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 959 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1032 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 889 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 867 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 886 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1038 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 919 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 921 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1038 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1084 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1094 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 854 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1008 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 925 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 868 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1009 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 954 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 826 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 986 Views

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