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Re: Some things to consider Sidious Send a noteboard - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM


To make a trend, you need a wide sample, with no bias. Our sample is based on Forsaken, who were the best channelers of the AoL, and the heroes who were born to fight them. Rather selective, to make any conclusions.

It's based on every channeler stronger than Moiraine.
He may have been unskilled in combat, but he obviously could use the OP to achieve incredibly complex genetic alterations. There is zero evidence for him being unskilled.

Or skilled. We don't know how he made his genetic alterations. In all likelihood they were made with machines or ter'angreal and his brain is to blame.
Based on? We come across their Talents more, because they are major characters. But we've seen plenty of weaker channelers with great, or even incredible Talents, and strong ones with no particular Talents at all.

The major character reply is a bit of a cop out. I agree we have seen weak channelers with Talents, but not many. Berowin, Sumeko, Androl.

We have also seen that more than half of the women who have been dragged into making cuendillar are Yellow ajah, and that the key is strength in Earth. Thus a whole cluster of strength in a flow and two Talents. Very skewed and not coincidental. Egwene is strong in all the flows and the Power and has a whole host of Talents.


Huh? You've never seen Nynaeve struggle? She doesn't practice, so she is quite unskilled. RJ even said that while Elayne and Egwene would pass the Aes Sedai test with considerable ease, Nynaeve would have difficulty. Talaan easily defeats her. Cadsuane says she is quite abysmal outside of Healing. Sumeko even calls her Healing clumsy, though that is probably only true in comparison to Sumeko herself.

Once Nynaeve does start practicing, she improves. But not before. There's no default skill because she's so strong.


Her problem was her block and her total disinterest in anything that wasn't Healing. As early as TSR she was a direct match for Moghedien in combat. Alivia also only knows how to destroy things with the Power but she picks up things almost instantly. Her ability to see and apply herself with saidar worried Cadsuane, which means that it is not a common skill. And then, of course, Alivia's ability to equal Cyndane's skill with an angreal is proof that strength by its self is a type of skill that can overcome channeling adversity. Which is why Siuan Sanche and Moiraine have used angreal and sa'angreal to Heal in the past.

We've also seen Rand split his flows more than ten ways and weave incredibly complex weaves without training, before Asmodean taught him. Yet he couldn't do much else. There is innate ability there, albeit uncontrolled.


Undoubtedly. But what makes you think this is weighed towards stronger channelers? We have direct evidence contradicting that.

We have trends that confirm that, and exceptions that prevent us from making a rule. I don't want to make a rule. I'm perfectly happy with "tall people find it easier to change lightbulbs but there are some short people who are really good at it too."
Since Cadsuane made the observation?

I'm not familiar with that quote.
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers darius_sedai - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3249 Views
Outstanding job Sidious - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 964 Views
Re: Outstanding job darius_sedai - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 951 Views
Very impressive. Well done. Cannoli - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1092 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. darius_sedai - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 991 Views
Quick Question gban007 - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1080 Views
Nope fionwe1987 - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1090 Views
They do say it Sidious - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1282 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 945 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength Sidious - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1082 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1121 Views
Well maybe Sidious - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1059 Views
Here's how I see it: fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1133 Views
I agree darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1090 Views
Re: I agree DomA - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1239 Views
It's always been confusing darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1198 Views
Re: It's always been confusing DomA - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1209 Views
I wholeheartedly agree darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1007 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: DomA - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1241 Views
Morgase Sidious - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1075 Views
I agree with you on this darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 941 Views
Re: Morgase DomA - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1215 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1068 Views
Re: I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment DomA - 04/12/2015 08:41:51 PM 994 Views
I don't know about RJ's issues, but the White Tower's waste always seemed like a minor theme there Cannoli - 04/12/2015 09:05:08 PM 1037 Views
Yes the Aes Sedai are all about "the glory of being Aes Sedai" kind of like religious cults darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:47:34 PM 973 Views
Too bad he also wrote in contingencies darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:45:26 PM 914 Views
Re: Well maybe darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1162 Views
Re: Well maybe Sidious - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1229 Views
Probably darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1011 Views
Re: Probably DomA - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1145 Views
Indeed darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1019 Views
Re: Indeed Sidious - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 950 Views
close enough to not debate about it darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 964 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it fionwe1987 - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 977 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1003 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying fionwe1987 - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1052 Views
um, no darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 954 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. Cannoli - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1188 Views
That's on you... fionwe1987 - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 980 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 933 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 964 Views
LOL *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 599 Views
Some points Sidious - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 998 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it Sidious - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1033 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength gban007 - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 943 Views
Great job fionwe1987 - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 972 Views
Re: Great job darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 953 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 651 Views
Some questions fionwe1987 - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 975 Views
Re: Some questions darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 948 Views
Re: Some questions Sidious - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1145 Views
That's why I added another column to it darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1011 Views
Some more fionwe1987 - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1040 Views
Re: Some more darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1077 Views
Re: Some more fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1072 Views
Re: Some more darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1002 Views
Re: Some more fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1017 Views
Re: Some more darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1083 Views
Re: Some more Sidious - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 925 Views
You said this much better than I did darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 944 Views
I think the men are much too strong Sidious - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1144 Views
Yes fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 977 Views
Re: Yes Sidious - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1070 Views
Re: Yes darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1115 Views
Re: Yes Sidious - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 924 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 972 Views
Shielding Sidious - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 923 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 915 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually Sidious - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 955 Views
seriously! darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 969 Views
Who should defer to whom? darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1146 Views
Interesting... fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1095 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1136 Views
Good job Terez - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1330 Views
Some questions fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1004 Views
Can't offer much Terez - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1176 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 873 Views
Re: Some questions darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 929 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 871 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 883 Views
Re: Some questions DomA - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1156 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 856 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1001 Views
Sort of. Terez - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1332 Views
Makes sense fionwe1987 - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 883 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1108 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 953 Views
Probably something along those lines darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 852 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) darius_sedai - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 880 Views
Moiraine... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 948 Views
That too is possible darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 909 Views
Some random trends/data points darius_sedai - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 915 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 611 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 974 Views
Not sure she can channel, though fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 834 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 983 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 532 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 566 Views
so.... Sidious - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 980 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 933 Views
Yes Sidious - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 906 Views
Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 910 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 873 Views
Re: Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 823 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 880 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 915 Views
Re: Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 837 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 868 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 955 Views
This is a flawed list Sidious - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 863 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 978 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1058 Views
Not really Sidious - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 915 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 946 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement Sidious - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 886 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about darius_sedai - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 982 Views
Some quotes fionwe1987 - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 886 Views
Re: Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 928 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 919 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! darius_sedai - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 887 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! Sidious - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 898 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road darius_sedai - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 874 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road Sidious - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 897 Views
I'm actually perplexed fionwe1987 - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 819 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed Sidious - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 936 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* darius_sedai - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 576 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 902 Views
Yes and No darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 866 Views
Re: Yes and No DomA - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 954 Views
Indeed darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 898 Views
Ajah Strength Index darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 930 Views
Greens... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 894 Views
Me too honestly darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 828 Views
Re: Me too honestly fionwe1987 - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 879 Views
Re: Me too honestly darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 868 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 917 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 845 Views
Liandrin's 13 darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1031 Views
Explain Sidious - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 959 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1032 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle darius_sedai - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 889 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here darius_sedai - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 867 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently darius_sedai - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 886 Views
Aran'gar fionwe1987 - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1038 Views
Re: Aran'gar Sidious - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 919 Views
mostly agree darius_sedai - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 921 Views
Re: Aran'gar fionwe1987 - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1038 Views
Re: Aran'gar Sidious - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1084 Views
We do have some additional clues darius_sedai - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1094 Views
additional thought darius_sedai - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 854 Views
Does she know that? fionwe1987 - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1009 Views
I'm speculating of course darius_sedai - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 925 Views
Strength by National origin darius_sedai - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 868 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! darius_sedai - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1009 Views
Tamra's known hunters darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 955 Views
Known... fionwe1987 - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 826 Views
Re: Known... darius_sedai - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 986 Views
If you want to use the file you might want to grab it now before the site shuts down *NM* darius_sedai - 18/09/2016 06:45:48 PM 497 Views
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