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Indeed darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM

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It's also not all about channeling either... Nynaeve had zero skills (acquired) and was blocked, yet Siuan deemed her too old and too strong to be a novice. Of course, this wasn't normal, but still...

The main factor the AS are looking at in recruits is strength of character/personality. They don't give the shawl to women who have not yet been shaped into proper AS, who will behave like AS. They also have to reach the minimal level for Acceptance, and likely that for the shawl later (and the whole set of weaves used in the test), but in those two cases it's a matter of gaining on your potential more than having learned fast. To AS, strength in the OP is stupidly equated to leadership qualities, so they tend to see stronger recruit as being stronger persons naturally, and it part it's true because they treat them as if they were stronger and promised to greater things, while weaker ones are treated as weaker person. Want it or not, this sinks in... which explains the subdued nature of a Daigian, for instance.

The thing is, we can't really know if weaker women progress in their weaving slower than strong women, for AS do not deal with their recruits equally... they won't make weaker women progress very fast, and they probably also believe that stronger women must work harder and progress faster because they're in more danger....

AS are so biased, and also don't use angreal to help the weaker women to have enough strength to learn and make work some weaves (I seriously doubt they like WO teach weaves that a woman isn't able to make work), we can't draw much conclusions.

We'd have to compare to how things go among the Aiel, but except to tell us that all women were trained to their fullest no matter their strength, RJ has not left us information.

Personally I tend to think stronger women usually progress faster because, without angreal, they have sooner access to larger quantities of saidar to weave. But since we've seen weak women who remain very good weaver, I suspect it's not a matter of talent, skill, ability and with an angreal to use a weak woman could train as fast as a much stronger one.





The point I was trying to make is that Training and Learning the OP are not the same thing. We know that Moiraine came to the White Tower with a stellar education due to her position in the royal family of Cairhien and this played a role in her quickly moving from Novice to Accepted, meanwhile Siuan came in practically without an education, but still managed to progress quickly because she was something of an OP savant, thus her focus was on mundane knowledge while Moiraine's focus as a Novice was on the Power.

They both gained strength rapidly enough to be strong enough to meet the minimum requirements for the Ring and the Shawl, but neither was at their full potential (I would guess they were around a 18/19 when they reached the Shawl).

Daigian, was almost certainly at her full potential after nearly 50 years, but to your point she likely wasn't really focussed on by her strength obsessed Aes Sedai teachers and thus would have struggled with nearly every weave.

On the other hand there are women like Silviana who spent enough time in training that she must have been at her full potential when she achieved the Shawl and possibly even when she became Accepted. Her issues seemed to be rooted in the OP part of the training, similar to Nynaeve's issues.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3294 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1036 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1031 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1169 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1066 Views
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Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1209 Views
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Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1313 Views
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I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1016 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1284 Views
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Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1238 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1316 Views
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Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1018 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1051 Views
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Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1023 Views
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Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1056 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 688 Views
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Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1021 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1212 Views
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Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1139 Views
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Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1158 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 994 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1030 Views
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Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1143 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1193 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 999 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1068 Views
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I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 992 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1032 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1042 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1218 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1168 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1205 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1409 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1073 Views
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Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1015 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 952 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 947 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1241 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1073 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1400 Views
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Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1055 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 875 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1065 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 567 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 601 Views
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Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 964 Views
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Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 954 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 895 Views
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Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 944 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1034 Views
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another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1141 Views
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Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 954 Views
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Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 999 Views
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Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1118 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1166 Views
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Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 908 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1061 Views

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