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yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM

which also leads me to believe RJ didn't really have a "scale" for dexterity and there's nothing to say it was a constant additive bonus for women (realistically this would mean there was only one scale for both men and women and totally negates the point of the ++ levels).

I personally don't care all that much about the "effectiveness" scale since it's clear that RJ didn't create one and didn't seem to really think about something like this beyond a few passing comments, he certainly never gave us enough information about two channelers to conclusively say "X was more effective than Y". We see no clear effectiveness difference between any of the Forsaken really, Graendal is weaker than all but Moghedien, yet had no problem believing she could kill Sammael a ++2 man, who in theory she would be less effective than.

The whole effectiveness conversation seems to only matter for the purposes of trying to back into an actual strength level for certain characters IMO. And I certainly don't think there is enough information to say there is a direct correlation to a ++3 man and a 3 woman or that a level 13 man could only be as effective as a level 19 woman and so forth ... at least not off of the information that they could both create a useable gateway. This can too easily be explained by superior Talent or stronger flow affinity, especially since we've seen channelers perform feats that should be impossible due to a Talent or a flow affinity. Weaves and what could be done by a man and a woman sometimes just varied. We know men and women have different weaves for Traveling and only one strength minimum is mentioned, perhaps the way men Traveled was just generally easier than the way women did it. We know air bridges have a maximum distance they could span and that a weaker woman could achieve the same as Rand could etc...

I think RJ wrote what fit the needs of the story and explained it with whatever device he deemed necessary. Beyond him making the general remark that women are more dexterous than men, I don't recall him ever giving a single detail about dexterity. He typically used Talent or flow affinity as his rationale for someone being particularly good at something.

Egwene's Earth affinity = cuendillar, other women with good strength in Earth could do it better than much stronger women

Siuan could still Heal to the same ability after her strength reduction

Ashmanaille could Travel, but didn't have the requisite strength to even make a non-useable gateway

Androl could make gateways well beyond what any of the most powerful channelers could achieve

Berowyn and her Shielding

Thing is, we have almost nothing to compare a male and a female channeler's strength. The only reason we even think they are different is because RJ said so, the OP feats in the books themselves give us no indication that Lanfear or Semirhage were as effective as Ishamael or that Mesaana was the same as Demandred or Aginor.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3294 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1036 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1031 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1169 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1067 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1148 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1166 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1362 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1029 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1159 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1191 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1139 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1209 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1167 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1318 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1283 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1271 Views
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Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1315 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1163 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1016 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1284 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1144 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1239 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1316 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1086 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1211 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1086 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1018 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1051 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1049 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1087 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1134 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1043 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1276 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1079 Views
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Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1043 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1110 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1024 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1034 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1056 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 689 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1050 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1021 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1213 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1091 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1120 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1145 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1139 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1087 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1105 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1158 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 995 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1030 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1214 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1057 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1143 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1193 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 999 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1068 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 998 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 993 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1033 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1042 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1218 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1168 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1205 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1410 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1073 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1244 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 943 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1016 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 953 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 948 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1241 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 936 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1074 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1402 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 955 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1160 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1031 Views
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That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 988 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 993 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 661 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1055 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 876 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1067 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 567 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 602 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1057 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1007 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 964 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 982 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 954 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 895 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 952 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 995 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 915 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 944 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1034 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 935 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1052 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1141 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 998 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1022 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 960 Views
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Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 926 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1009 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 996 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 957 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 977 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 947 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 975 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 898 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1016 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 611 Views
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Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 940 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1022 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 976 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 998 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 966 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 913 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 950 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 957 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 965 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 926 Views
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Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1027 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1115 Views
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If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 966 Views
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Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 999 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1000 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1119 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1166 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1166 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 934 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1077 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1000 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 945 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1076 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1024 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 908 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1063 Views

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