Active Users:583 Time:09/03/2026 05:12:58 PM
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM

View original post
Don't you think its weird to want to most competent to be the most strongest? Anaiya, I think, says that strength of will goes with strength in the Power, which is a bonkers statement.

Why shouldn't Mesaana be stronger in the Power but less capable and devious than Graendal?

The Forsaken almost never think about differences in their OP strength. That's because at their range, no one has enough of an advantage to think a fight a foregone conclusion. Instead they consider the deviousness, the plotting ability, etc.

It seems to me very current age Aes Sedai like to say "Mesaana should have been weaker IMO ... Level 2 just doesn't match up all that well to the books to me." You can be strong and inept! On the other hand, you can be as weak as Sorilea, or weaker, and be amazingly competent.

I know you're not saying otherwise. You're wishing otherwise. But that just seems weird to me.

More later.


I'm not really "wishing" for anything here, I'm noting where I find discrepancy in how I read the text and what the Companion says regarding strength. RJ set the stage in many ways to show that stronger channelers were typically more bold, you can see that just by looking at the strength rankings and looking at how these individuals behaved.

I found it odd from Mesaana's behavior that she was so strong in the power. She behaved as though she was less than the other Forsaken, even while talking about how she knew she "matched up in skill" she was admitting being afraid of Semirhage. I don't actually think Mesaana was particularly inept, she showed quite a bit of skill actually and created more chaos than any Forsaken save Graendal really. But the hiding, fearfulness and generally meek attitude went a long way toward assuming she wasn't as powerful in the OP.

I think what Anaiya's comment is supposed to mean is that being strong gives you a bit of swagger, that doesn't seem crazy to me, especially from a modern Aes Sedai. But I agree that we've got plenty of examples of strong people being inept as well as weak one's being effective ... look at Shemerin, she was a level 15, quite high for Aes Sedai, but was also totally inept! Something RJ had to go out of his way to explain (she's got one of the more flushed out entries in the Companion)

It's exception when someone weaker is exceptional, that's pretty consistent throughout the books, so much so that RJ went out of his way to point it out most of the time. Cadsuane had to tell us that Daigian had "one of the finest minds" in the Tower, yet she still spend 48 years in training (close to 2x the next slowest learner). All part of his illustration of her power level. Mesaana had weak motivations for turning to the Shadow, did comparatively less than others during the WoP and generally hid behind an alliance with more powerful allies. Adds up to a weaker individual IMO.

But you are correct that there is so little real difference in their individual strengths that it offers basically no advantage to any of them. Even Moghedien, had she been less inept, could have been a threat to the most powerful in terms of power levels.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Reply to message
Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3611 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1341 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1314 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1485 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1359 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1500 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1554 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1671 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1358 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1476 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1505 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1491 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1504 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1508 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1684 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1651 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1601 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1431 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1669 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1544 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1366 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1653 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1475 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1597 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1652 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1407 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1533 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1404 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1351 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1360 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1358 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1425 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1433 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1350 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1702 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1375 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1346 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1344 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 818 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1360 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1397 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1307 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1363 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1365 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 897 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1356 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1347 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1537 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1427 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1437 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1465 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1475 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1398 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1447 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1481 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1286 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1347 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1514 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1343 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1462 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1511 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1300 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1420 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1266 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1290 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1357 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1342 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1499 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1499 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1510 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1870 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1364 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1696 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1286 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1313 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1319 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1245 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1579 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1274 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1382 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1857 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1284 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1508 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1328 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 1229 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 1265 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1348 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1291 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1296 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 836 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1384 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 1198 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1374 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 756 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 782 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1361 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1349 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1271 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1274 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1232 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1211 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1264 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1340 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1260 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1247 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1320 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 1241 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1368 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1435 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1348 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1355 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 1247 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1348 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 1236 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1332 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1317 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 1245 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 1282 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 1234 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1280 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1220 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1356 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 794 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 1309 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 1227 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1358 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1307 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1292 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 1258 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1207 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1254 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1288 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1273 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1254 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1398 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1332 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1433 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 1290 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 1271 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 1321 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1429 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1457 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1314 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1592 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1499 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1492 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1267 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1436 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1318 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1242 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1351 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1337 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1217 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1443 Views

Reply to Message