Active Users:343 Time:26/04/2025 01:17:07 PM
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM

View original post
Don't you think its weird to want to most competent to be the most strongest? Anaiya, I think, says that strength of will goes with strength in the Power, which is a bonkers statement.

Why shouldn't Mesaana be stronger in the Power but less capable and devious than Graendal?

The Forsaken almost never think about differences in their OP strength. That's because at their range, no one has enough of an advantage to think a fight a foregone conclusion. Instead they consider the deviousness, the plotting ability, etc.

It seems to me very current age Aes Sedai like to say "Mesaana should have been weaker IMO ... Level 2 just doesn't match up all that well to the books to me." You can be strong and inept! On the other hand, you can be as weak as Sorilea, or weaker, and be amazingly competent.

I know you're not saying otherwise. You're wishing otherwise. But that just seems weird to me.

More later.


I'm not really "wishing" for anything here, I'm noting where I find discrepancy in how I read the text and what the Companion says regarding strength. RJ set the stage in many ways to show that stronger channelers were typically more bold, you can see that just by looking at the strength rankings and looking at how these individuals behaved.

I found it odd from Mesaana's behavior that she was so strong in the power. She behaved as though she was less than the other Forsaken, even while talking about how she knew she "matched up in skill" she was admitting being afraid of Semirhage. I don't actually think Mesaana was particularly inept, she showed quite a bit of skill actually and created more chaos than any Forsaken save Graendal really. But the hiding, fearfulness and generally meek attitude went a long way toward assuming she wasn't as powerful in the OP.

I think what Anaiya's comment is supposed to mean is that being strong gives you a bit of swagger, that doesn't seem crazy to me, especially from a modern Aes Sedai. But I agree that we've got plenty of examples of strong people being inept as well as weak one's being effective ... look at Shemerin, she was a level 15, quite high for Aes Sedai, but was also totally inept! Something RJ had to go out of his way to explain (she's got one of the more flushed out entries in the Companion)

It's exception when someone weaker is exceptional, that's pretty consistent throughout the books, so much so that RJ went out of his way to point it out most of the time. Cadsuane had to tell us that Daigian had "one of the finest minds" in the Tower, yet she still spend 48 years in training (close to 2x the next slowest learner). All part of his illustration of her power level. Mesaana had weak motivations for turning to the Shadow, did comparatively less than others during the WoP and generally hid behind an alliance with more powerful allies. Adds up to a weaker individual IMO.

But you are correct that there is so little real difference in their individual strengths that it offers basically no advantage to any of them. Even Moghedien, had she been less inept, could have been a threat to the most powerful in terms of power levels.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Reply to message
Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3305 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1048 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1042 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1180 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1076 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1161 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1176 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1372 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1042 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1170 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1202 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1151 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1220 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1187 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1328 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1294 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1283 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1099 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1324 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1179 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1029 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1295 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1155 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1251 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1330 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1106 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1221 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1097 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1028 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1064 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1061 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1097 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1146 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1054 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1290 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1088 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1027 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1052 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 639 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1052 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1121 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1038 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1045 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1066 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 694 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1063 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1034 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1222 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1102 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1133 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1156 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1152 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1099 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1116 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1169 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1005 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1042 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1224 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1069 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1155 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1205 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1009 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1079 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1008 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1002 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1043 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1052 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1231 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1179 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1216 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1421 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1084 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1257 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 952 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1027 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 963 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 960 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1252 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1085 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1416 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 968 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1175 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1044 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 934 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 966 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1008 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 999 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1002 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 666 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1066 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 885 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1076 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 575 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 606 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1067 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1022 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 975 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 992 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 965 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 906 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 962 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1007 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 926 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 958 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1044 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 947 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1064 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1152 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1009 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1032 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 970 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1065 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 937 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1021 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1009 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 971 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 991 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 957 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 985 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 908 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1027 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 616 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 991 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 948 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1035 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 984 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1008 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 977 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 923 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 959 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 966 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 976 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 938 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1117 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1052 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1126 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 967 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 950 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 978 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1125 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1027 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1012 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1149 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1176 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1174 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 951 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1090 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1011 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 955 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1088 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1038 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 920 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1079 Views

Reply to Message