Active Users:511 Time:25/12/2024 12:22:20 PM
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM

View original post
Don't you think its weird to want to most competent to be the most strongest? Anaiya, I think, says that strength of will goes with strength in the Power, which is a bonkers statement.

Why shouldn't Mesaana be stronger in the Power but less capable and devious than Graendal?

The Forsaken almost never think about differences in their OP strength. That's because at their range, no one has enough of an advantage to think a fight a foregone conclusion. Instead they consider the deviousness, the plotting ability, etc.

It seems to me very current age Aes Sedai like to say "Mesaana should have been weaker IMO ... Level 2 just doesn't match up all that well to the books to me." You can be strong and inept! On the other hand, you can be as weak as Sorilea, or weaker, and be amazingly competent.

I know you're not saying otherwise. You're wishing otherwise. But that just seems weird to me.

More later.


I'm not really "wishing" for anything here, I'm noting where I find discrepancy in how I read the text and what the Companion says regarding strength. RJ set the stage in many ways to show that stronger channelers were typically more bold, you can see that just by looking at the strength rankings and looking at how these individuals behaved.

I found it odd from Mesaana's behavior that she was so strong in the power. She behaved as though she was less than the other Forsaken, even while talking about how she knew she "matched up in skill" she was admitting being afraid of Semirhage. I don't actually think Mesaana was particularly inept, she showed quite a bit of skill actually and created more chaos than any Forsaken save Graendal really. But the hiding, fearfulness and generally meek attitude went a long way toward assuming she wasn't as powerful in the OP.

I think what Anaiya's comment is supposed to mean is that being strong gives you a bit of swagger, that doesn't seem crazy to me, especially from a modern Aes Sedai. But I agree that we've got plenty of examples of strong people being inept as well as weak one's being effective ... look at Shemerin, she was a level 15, quite high for Aes Sedai, but was also totally inept! Something RJ had to go out of his way to explain (she's got one of the more flushed out entries in the Companion)

It's exception when someone weaker is exceptional, that's pretty consistent throughout the books, so much so that RJ went out of his way to point it out most of the time. Cadsuane had to tell us that Daigian had "one of the finest minds" in the Tower, yet she still spend 48 years in training (close to 2x the next slowest learner). All part of his illustration of her power level. Mesaana had weak motivations for turning to the Shadow, did comparatively less than others during the WoP and generally hid behind an alliance with more powerful allies. Adds up to a weaker individual IMO.

But you are correct that there is so little real difference in their individual strengths that it offers basically no advantage to any of them. Even Moghedien, had she been less inept, could have been a threat to the most powerful in terms of power levels.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Reply to message
Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3249 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 964 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 951 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1092 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 991 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1079 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1090 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1282 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 945 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1081 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1120 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1058 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1133 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1090 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1238 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1198 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1208 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1007 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1241 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1075 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 940 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1215 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1068 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1162 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1228 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1011 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1145 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1018 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 950 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 964 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 977 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1003 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1052 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 954 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1187 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 980 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 933 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 964 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 599 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 997 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1033 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 943 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 972 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 953 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 650 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 975 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 948 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1145 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1010 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1040 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1076 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1072 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1001 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1017 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1083 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 924 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 944 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1143 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 977 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1070 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1115 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 923 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 971 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 922 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 915 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 954 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 969 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1146 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1095 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1136 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1330 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1004 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1176 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 873 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 929 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 870 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 883 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1156 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1001 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1332 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 882 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1107 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 952 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 851 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 879 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 948 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 909 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 914 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 611 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 974 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 833 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 983 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 532 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 565 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 980 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 932 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 906 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 910 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 873 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 823 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 879 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 915 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 837 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 867 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 954 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 863 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 977 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1058 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 914 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 946 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 885 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 982 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 886 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 928 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 919 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 887 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 897 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 873 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 897 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 818 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 936 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 575 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 902 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 866 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 953 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 898 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 929 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 894 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 827 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 879 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 867 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 917 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 845 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1031 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 959 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1031 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 889 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 867 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 886 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1038 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 919 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 921 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1038 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1084 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1093 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 853 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1008 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 925 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 868 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1009 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 954 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 826 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 986 Views

Reply to Message