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Re: Yes Sidious Send a noteboard - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM

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The strongest, probably, but I doubt we saw too many ++1s. That kind of strength would be incredibly rare.

Apologies, I meant the famous False Dragons. Kiruna's quote implies that they were at high Forsaken strength if one considers how difficult it was to hold Logain.


He's way less effective than Daigian. I'd put him a little lower, frankly, even considering the dexterity advantage Daigian enjoys.

Yes, but I think we agree that he is very weak indeed. He was the object of scorn, not unlike Daigian.


Not necessarily ... when you start looking at the women who were at Dumai's Wells, the majority of them are on the weaker side for Aes Sedai (Sashalle aside). False Dragon's like Yurian on a ++5 or ++6 level would have still needed several weak Sisters to hold them with absolute certainty. ++6 would have seemed massively powerful 1000 years after the Breaking once men who could channel became more rare in general (or were Gentled long before they hit their potential). Especially since we've only got one named Aes Sedai (Carhaigan) who was a top-tier woman prior to Nynaeve. Mabriam was a level 9 during the Compact Years and she was clearly an important figure comparatively a ++5/6 man would seem massively powerful, even more so when you consider that Semirhage at Level 1 was held by 3 (including Daigian). Realistically any 6 Aes Sedai level women should be more than a match for any single channeler, despite what's said in the books about Logain nearly breaking free. Rand only managed to free himself when it was down to 3 women.


Well anyone above ++6 would be massively powerful by any standard, even during the AOL. It also seems that the general strength in the Tower dwindled since the Breaking, so it's likely the Reds were even stronger then.

Nynaeve seems to imply that Logain could have broken free if he wanted to, and Siuan pretty much said the same until they had a full six sisters to shield him. We know for a fact that some of the False Dragons could not be taken by six women, and killed and gentled some of them.

ACoS (The Sending) - What I do not understand is how they captured him … Perrin, both Elora and Ledar say that when Aes Sedai find a man of great power, they always gather thirteen to take him… they wrote of Yurian Stoneboww and Guaire Amalasan. Of Raolin Darksbane and Davian, as well, but the others are who worry me… Those were four of the most powerful among the men who had called themselves the Dragon Reborn … Six Aes Sedai tried to capture Stonebow, and he killed three and captured the others himself. Six tried to take Amalasan; he killed one and stilled two more. Surely Rand is as strong as Stonebow or Amalasan.

The False Dragons also usually took time to capture and I surrounded themselves with vast armies. I think many of them would have come close to their potential. Both Taim and Logain did for certain. Rand was probably sitting somewhere between ++6 and ++2 during LoC.

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