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Re: Some more fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM

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I think you are under the belief that men operate under a different power level structure here,

They do. Here's the RJ quote to prove it:
Regarding the percentage of women who could test for the shawl, it would be 62.5% of the bell curve. I’ll leave the maths to you for an idle moment. The question doesn’t really apply to men, since the Black Tower accepts anyone who can learn to channel, but if the White Tower limits were applied, it would be roughly 65.4% of the bell curve. Although, considering the effectiveness question, they should probably set it at the same 62.5%. Again, the maths are all yours. Regarding the levels of male strength, while the weakest man and the weakest woman would be roughly equivalent, you might say that there are several levels of male strength on top of the female levels. Remember to integrate this with what I’ve said elsewhere about effectiveness, though.

It isn't just that the strongest woman and strongest man are effectively equal despite a difference in the volume of OP they can draw. It carries all the way through, or there wouldn't be 2.9% of the male population that is technically strong enough to be Aes Sedai strength, but not effective enough to be considered so, if such limitations held at the BT.


when in fact men simply occupy more levels than women over all.

But are the men at the lowest rungs effective channelers at all? We've seen Morghase be able to do some small things. Can men at that level do anything? I doubt it. For all intents and purposes, all they have is the ability to rarely touch the OP, and increase their lifespan. Whereas Morgase is proof that women can actually use that puny strength to affect the world, if in incredibly small ways.
The weakest man and the weakest woman are roughly equal, but there are more strength levels for men as a whole (thus the ++ levels). Matching Aviendha's work at the river simply means he's roughly the same level as she is, or, given his strength with Air, he could actually be weaker overall, but still skilled enough to match her feat. Egwene is 4 levels below Nynaeve, but there is no way Nynaeve could match her cuendillar ability. Naeff is shown to be similar with Air. We know he has less strength than Nynaeve, but his ability with Air is clearly meant to be amazing thus he can match her.

If Naeff could draw as much of the OP as Aviendha, he wouldn't be able to have as much of an effect as her. Granted, he is strong in Air, but its not like she's weak in it.

I think the text from Merise's conversation with Cadsuane makes it pretty clear that Narishma is as strong as she is after his most recent jump in Power, if he was still weaker than she was she would not have commented on it IMO. And it seems he gained a pretty significant increase from the time she bonded him as she seems surprised by how quickly he moved up to her strength.

This is pure wish fulfilment. We have no way of knowing what she meant on his actual strength. We knew he had been previously forced, and we knew he could make a usable gateway. If, in a matter of weeks, he jumped up even one level, that is remarkable by Aes Sedai standards. So he could have moved from an effective level of 19 to 18, and that would still make Merise worry, as he is young, and could potentially outstrip her.

Not true that men would need to be a level 13 to Travel. It's stated outright under the "gateways" entry in the Companion that "the minimum strength required for making a gateway of useful size, large enough to walk through, was 19(7). The minimum strength required to make any gateway at all out of a circle was 21(9)".

The listing of a circle seems to be a pretty clear pointer that the strength levels being listed are for women.
Androl's Traveling talent is specifically called out in this entry so it seems true for men as well as women. There is no mention that this would be different for men than women. All we know here is that there would be a higher percentage of men who fall into this strength level or higher because men are generally stronger than women, but not always.

But a man of strength level 19 wouldn't be as effective as a woman in that level. There are entirely too many quotes that prove just this.
I suspect most of these men probably are stronger than level 19, but that's the highest we can reliably place them without more information from the text.

I suspect some are stronger, like Flinn, but I would just change that number to level 13.
I assume you are trying to include the "dexterity bonus" thus making a man stronger by several levels than a woman who can perform the same OP related task, but without a scale for both dexterity and strength it's impossible to say how this works.

There is no evidence that women's dexterity bonus has a scale. None. It seems to be a constant thing, if you look at all the quotes.

Take the RJ quote I posted above. If there is a dexterity scale, the numbers would be much more complicated. RJ would have to make a caveat for a man who is as strong as Daigian in raw strength, but more dextrous than most men, and therefor effective enough to be "Aes Sedai". But he doesn't. He clearly says men who are drawing as much OP as the weakest Aes Sedai would be too ineffective to technically be Aes Sedai.


We know that Level 1 female is roughly equal to a ++1 male, but we don't know that a level 2 female is more more/less effective than a level ++2 or if a level 3 female could be more effective than a level ++2 male. There is some disparity between the dexterity bonus and strength because a level 66 man and a level 66 woman are roughly equal.

Nope. We just don't know that a level 66 man can do anything. We know of someone who is either level 66 or very close to it who can actually move a handkerchief. A man of that level will simply be unable to do anything useful, per RJ's statement. Or maybe he can only mildly budge a fly. Point being, there is no equivalency in the lowest level beyond raw OP strength. They are clearly not effectively equal.

As for the lower levels below ++1 and 1, clearly there is an equality, and that goes all the way down to the female level 45, which is more effective than the male level 45, per RJ.

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