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Re: Lini's sexual hangups? (WoT Companion datum) darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 12/11/2015 09:52:54 PM

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I hadn't really noticed when I was reading the books anything particularly smart Lini did, and her care for Moiraine seemed a bit creepy, even borderline obsessive. It's one thing to still see her as a kid, but Lini took it to an extreme. And for all her supposed perspicacity and insight, she really swung and missed when it came to the Perrin/Berelain affair. Most people saw through her games pretty well, but Lini bought it hook, line and sinker. And for all that she is supposed to be good at the servant gig, her contributing to the gossip is a complete failure of both ethics and competence. A good servant would discretely inform Faile and keep her mouth shut until she knew how her mistress wanted her to handle it. It didn't seem to occur to her that spreading tales about Perrin hooking up with Berelain was embarrassing to Faile, the supposed object of Lini's loyalty.

And now the WoT Companion mentions that Tallanvor was born in 971. It also mentions that Morgase went to the Tower in 971. She was born in 957, making her 14 at the time. Back in tFoH, when Morgase commented on Tallanvor's youth, Lini pointed out that the difference in their ages was not so great, saying "You were still playing with dolls when he was born, and thinking babes came the same way as dolls." That's the gist, at least, as I recall the conversation. Morgase was 14 when Tallanvor was born. She went to the White Tower. And apparently at that point in her life, she did not know where babies came from! Lini should know that stuff, having raised her, and had charge of her development. Morgase even mentions how Lini thought men had a limited number of uses, and thought her too young to hear some of those until she was already on the Lion Throne. Morgase took the throne at 19. Andoran nobles are legal adults at 16. Elayne gets pregnant at 18 and while there is awareness of her marital state, no one comments on her age, and Elayne never feels it worth mentioning, which suggests 18 is not at all unusually young to have children in that culture. In other words, Morgase was well into normal or common child-bearing years before Lini thought it acceptable to tell her about sex! She still had Morgase playing with dolls at 14 until she went to the Tower, and wouldn't tell her about sex until she was about 20.

Years later, Elayne, the next unfortunate woman to fall into Lini's care, despite at that point having become a sophisticated world traveler and savvy politician, overhears the phrase "fish-loving" in a pejorative context, and is confused by sailors saying such a thing, assuming it refers to someone who enjoys the taste of fish, rather than committing icthyality. More earthy characters observe that when Elayne uses obscenities, she does so in a way that betrays her ignorance of their meanings or connotations. Lini raised three generations of women in a family whose station and culture made reproduction vitally important, and appears to have withheld critical information from her charges on that very topic! Allowing noblewomen to reach adulthood ignorant of sexuality is akin to refusing to teach astronauts math. I'm wondering now if her inappropriate over-reaction to Perrin's supposed affair was over people having sex at all!


I think you might be taking Lini a hair to literally. While I agree that she's kind of ridiculous, I think she's also prone to hyperbole and overreactions. Odds that Morgase was unaware of where babies came from at age 19 are pretty much nil, especially since she likely had the finest of educations available prior to her going to the Tower, and once in the Tower would have been exposed to this knowledge almost certainly. Morgase also showed that she was rather exasperated by Lini's attitudes as well, which just leads me to believe more that Lini's hangups didn't really have a material effect on a young Morgase. And while Elayne was certainly sheltered, she was also quite aware of how relations between men and women worked, if not exactly wise about how she went about them (i.e. getting knocked up on her first go with sex is a rookie mistake).

I do however agree that her behaviour regarding Perrin is pretty inexcusable for a woman who was supposedly a member of the Royal household of the most powerful nation of the land. Such a servant should have shown discretion of the highest order. Perhaps her age is starting to catch up with her.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 12/11/2015 at 09:54:59 PM
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