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Re: Why not? Sidious Send a noteboard - 03/10/2009 06:34:16 AM

You are appalled that I care about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people? I suppose I shouldn't care about the deaths of the millions of people who got killed in World War Two either?

Ugh, you're probably one of those people who cried when the Amayar died. RJ was angry that no one cared about this 'disaster' meanwhile no reader has ever even seen an Amayar and we were meant to cry for this. That's like Mars blowing up and we have to weep for a billion dead martians, but we've never even seen one.

Moving on, no, I don't claim to be devastated bu the deaths of "common" people. But those deaths do leave me angry with the Forsaken, disgusted at their evil, and aware of the greatly adverse impact they have had on Randland.
RJ gave his world a flavor and believability that I like. It makes me connect with that world. When that world is being slowly destroyed, its order overthrown, I feel angry.

But many of these 'losses' are more a result of Rand and the chaos that he brings, and not the Forsaken. Very few of the Forsaken can claim to have created real chaos. Semirhage may be the first real example, and that occurred in KoD.

And why talk only of distant losses. Do you mean to tell me that when Rand is walking through the carpet of crows, looking for bodies of maidens after Dumai's Wells, you did no feel sad? Are you telling me that Olver's story of having to bury his parents did not shoot a pang of grief through you? Did you not feel a thrill of fear when Siuan was deposed? I did, and know that the Forsaken were the cause of these events. If you did not, the person who should be appalled is me.

I said distant losses because they have no emotional value. We know Siuan and have walked alongside her - she thus has emotional value. Same with Olver and other people. Do you even care about what's going on in Shara? It's apparently 'bad' according the Aiel, but I doubt you've become angry or sad over something so distant to your heart.

Indeed I would, if he also keeps them fighting each other, infiltrates their power bases and creates war between the various factions of the Shadow. The Forsken need not die so long as they cannot even form any sort of coherent plan to defeat the Light.

Sorry but I disagree. There's a level of battle above the massive war of the Tarmon Gai'don. Without armies these people could still cause serious trouble in the world, so long as they have some sort of connection to the Dark One - which they do have.

And they have been targeted with success. What does it matter if Rand and Egwene are alive if the Forsaken's actions have made it very difficult for them to cooperate? How does it matter if Tuon and Mat are married and alive if the Forsaken created disparity of their cultures will keep them enemies in the battle-field?

Oh please... the Forsaken couldn't fail more if they tried. With Mat as the Prince of the Ravens, and the Dragon Reborn as his friend, it will be the easiest truce in the world when the whole Blight descends on them. Even the Whitecloaks want to fight alongside the Aes Sedai. Asmodean caused real trouble with the Shaido, and in the end, the Seanchan have 300 damane and the Shaido are going back to the Waste.

I'm a little confused with this statement. That Forsaken can't be killed? For killing the Light?

Oops... I meant if you can't blame the Forsaken, who can you blame for not killing the Light? It's their job.

I never thought I'd have to ask you of all people to read the books. Their primary goal is to keep themselves alive and in power, and after that, to follow the Dark One's order to spread chaos in the world and not kill Rand.

Spreading chaos is a subplot for crying out loud. The goal is to kill the Dragon and break the Wheel.

Show me where the Forsaken have made it their business to kill any of the girls and I'll agree with you that they failed.

Are you serious? What about Moghedien and her long-standing feud with Nynaeve? Lanfear wanted to kill Aviendha. Ishamael told the Black Ajah to get rid of Nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene and make them damane.

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Are women really bad generals? Sidious - 01/10/2009 07:05:03 PM 1512 Views

I think that all we can conclude from this... Rand al'Thor - 01/10/2009 07:39:49 PM 805 Views

No. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 07:41:35 PM 944 Views

Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... Shannow - 01/10/2009 08:40:47 PM 1035 Views

Lol... too true Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:29 PM 926 Views

And you guys whine about the lameness of RJ's villains? fionwe1987 - 01/10/2009 09:41:54 PM 942 Views

I still haven't seen proof of Demandred or Ishamael's "brilliance". RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:56:41 PM 769 Views

Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:25:37 AM 742 Views

Re: Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:48:13 PM 667 Views

but you are difficult to please Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:10:13 AM 722 Views

Re: but you are difficult to please RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:46:56 PM 666 Views

Re: but you are difficult to please Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:17:21 AM 675 Views

But they are lame... they've done minimal damage to the Light Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:06:05 AM 672 Views

You can't have it both ways.... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM 755 Views

Why not? Sidious - 02/10/2009 08:45:35 AM 718 Views

Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 04:27:00 PM 618 Views

Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:34:16 AM 739 Views

Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 03/10/2009 07:40:16 AM 676 Views

Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 05:07:51 PM 651 Views

Yeah Etzel - 01/10/2009 09:57:01 PM 705 Views

Re: Yeah nossy - 01/10/2009 10:40:28 PM 738 Views

I thought the same in the past... Etzel - 02/10/2009 07:01:18 AM 716 Views

Gah! Hate! nossy - 02/10/2009 04:11:49 PM 727 Views

Ah, come on... Etzel - 02/10/2009 04:41:37 PM 700 Views

No no, I was just being pouty that I haven't read the new stuff yet.

nossy - 02/10/2009 05:01:15 PM 714 Views

Yeah, I can understand that!

Etzel - 03/10/2009 12:23:25 PM 568 Views

Unless... Fanatic-Templar - 01/10/2009 10:49:55 PM 772 Views

Re: Unless... Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:07:14 AM 800 Views

Well, it's entirely hypothetical, Fanatic-Templar - 02/10/2009 06:31:32 AM 681 Views

Re: Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:51:30 PM 789 Views

What about Mat and Ituralde? Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:28:49 AM 748 Views

Re: What about Mat and Ituralde? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:52:24 PM 686 Views

Good points! Also, these "generals" haven't actually fielded any troops beetnemesis - 01/10/2009 11:23:40 PM 671 Views

Further... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 12:14:44 AM 704 Views

But as individuals they are meant to be deadly too Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:09:21 AM 665 Views

Just one point ^_^ RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/10/2009 12:51:50 AM 692 Views

Well, yeah. They're knowledgable and deadly in person. Generalship doesn't come into it. beetnemesis - 04/10/2009 12:09:50 AM 648 Views

nope nossy - 01/10/2009 08:06:57 PM 793 Views

Re: nope Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:38 PM 890 Views

Tylee Kirgan, Birgitte, and one other, Egeanin NaClH2O - 01/10/2009 09:47:00 PM 1098 Views

Birgitte's not a soldier though. Darth_Katie - 01/10/2009 10:10:50 PM 693 Views

She says she's not, but so does Mat.

nossy - 01/10/2009 10:34:04 PM 609 Views

Mat's not a soldier, either - he's a general RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 10:51:29 PM 750 Views

Right, which was what we were discussing at first. nossy - 02/10/2009 04:13:43 PM 693 Views

Yeah, I'm supporting your point about them both being generals RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 06:10:31 PM 703 Views

true, but she does pretty good NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:06:03 AM 744 Views

Oooh I forgot she's in charge of Elayne's lady guards. Darth_Katie - 02/10/2009 03:22:57 AM 625 Views

Egeanin or Leilwin

nossy - 01/10/2009 10:35:53 PM 823 Views

A ship captain is like a calvary general NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:24:37 AM 680 Views

Right. Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:36:59 AM 681 Views

Well said. (And its short and to the point.) RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 03:54:23 AM 797 Views

Birgitte is too cautious to be better than an adequate tactician. RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 04:22:45 AM 730 Views

Isn't this more of an outgrowth or her respective specialty? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/10/2009 08:40:46 PM 653 Views

My opinion Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:30:12 AM 1097 Views

That's a poor excuse rAndy aL - 02/10/2009 11:59:42 AM 633 Views

That's a poor argument Cannoli - 02/10/2009 04:02:53 PM 854 Views

Re: That's a poor argument rAndy aL - 03/10/2009 04:26:55 AM 714 Views

I disagree nossy - 02/10/2009 04:26:28 PM 733 Views

Re: I disagree Cannoli - 02/10/2009 08:31:29 PM 930 Views

Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 02/10/2009 09:09:30 PM 878 Views

Re: Oh, puh-lease. Cannoli - 03/10/2009 04:52:37 PM 697 Views

Re: Oh, puh-lease. NaClH2O - 03/10/2009 08:26:27 PM 590 Views

Re: Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 05/10/2009 05:08:27 PM 3153 Views

I always know I've out-argued an idiot when they fall back on the tired old "RJ wanted it that way" Cannoli - 06/10/2009 04:42:11 AM 737 Views

And I can tell you're through when you've gotten to three+ insults per paragraph. nossy - 06/10/2009 05:46:24 PM 846 Views

um nossy - 08/10/2009 07:36:52 PM 983 Views

Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst RabidWombat - 04/10/2009 07:28:36 AM 786 Views

Men and football. nossy - 05/10/2009 04:49:35 PM 710 Views

She didn't kill anyone! Why SHOULD she feel guilty? She gave necessary orders. Cannoli - 06/10/2009 03:33:15 AM 812 Views

It's the only thing men are allowed to do in Randland CupofDice - 02/10/2009 03:09:19 AM 720 Views

My thoughts LordPerrin - 02/10/2009 03:12:46 PM 653 Views

.... Fantasy - 04/10/2009 03:38:44 AM 640 Views

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<quote id="28868">
<quote>You are appalled that I care about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people? I suppose I shouldn't care about the deaths of the millions of people who got killed in World War Two either?</quote>

<quote>Moving on, no, I don't claim to be devastated bu the deaths of "common" people. But those deaths do leave me angry with the Forsaken, disgusted at their evil, and aware of the greatly adverse impact they have had on Randland. 
RJ gave his world a flavor and believability that I like. It makes me connect with that world. When that world is being slowly destroyed, its order overthrown, I feel angry.</quote>

<quote>And why talk only of distant losses. Do you mean to tell me that when Rand is walking through the carpet of crows, looking for bodies of maidens after Dumai's Wells, you did no feel sad? Are you telling me that Olver's story of having to bury his parents did not shoot a pang of grief through you? Did you not feel a thrill of fear when Siuan was deposed? I did, and know that the Forsaken were the cause of these events. If you did not, the person who should be appalled is me.</quote>

<quote>Indeed I would, if he also keeps them fighting each other, infiltrates their power bases and creates war between the various factions of the Shadow. The Forsken need not die so long as they cannot even form any sort of coherent plan to defeat the Light.</quote>
Sorry but I disagree. There's a level of battle above the massive war of the Tarmon Gai'don. Without armies these people could still cause serious trouble in the world, so long as they have some sort of connection to the Dark One - which they do have.

<quote>And they have been targeted with success. What does it matter if Rand and Egwene are alive if the Forsaken's actions have made it very difficult for them to cooperate? How does it matter if Tuon and Mat are married and alive if the Forsaken created disparity of their cultures will keep them enemies in the battle-field?</quote>

<quote>I'm a little confused with this statement. That Forsaken can't be killed? For killing the Light?</quote>

Oops... I meant if you can't blame the Forsaken, who can you blame for not killing the Light? It's their job.

<quote>I never thought I'd have to ask you of all people to read the books. Their primary goal is to keep themselves alive and in power, and after that, to follow the Dark One's order to spread chaos in the world and not kill Rand. </quote>

Spreading chaos is a subplot for crying out loud. The goal is to kill the Dragon and break the Wheel.

<quote>Show me where the Forsaken have made it their business to kill any of the girls and I'll agree with you that they failed.</quote>
Are you serious? What about Moghedien and her long-standing feud with Nynaeve? Lanfear wanted to kill Aviendha. Ishamael told the Black Ajah to get rid of Nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene and make them damane.
</quote>

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