Yes. I can see hints of what RJ intended there, though. Egwene had a clear justification for opposing Elaida, and hence supporting the Rebellion, in tPoD. She did not want the Tower to harm Rand, and she did not want the Tower distracted with madcap schemes to end the Black Tower. Her actions have been very consistent with this. I think what RJ planned was for her to go to the Tower and see 1) the insane division between the Ajahs there, which was worse in many ways than between the Rebels and the Loyalists, 2) The insane corner Elaida had been painted into and 3) That the Black Ajah was behind all this, and that anything that fractured the Tower further played right into the Shadow's hands.

Some of this was present, because parts of the books were written by RJ, but I think a cohesive narrative would have had Egwene morph her views in this way:

1) The division between the Ajahs would have made her realize the absurdities inherent in the Ajah structure, and also made her realize the grievous harm Siuan's lie about the Reds was doing to the Tower long term, whatever its short term necessity and advantages were. That this lie never came up again is beyond belief.

2) Seeing Elaida in her corner, and raging for things like a fourth Oath should have had Egwene question the fealty she demanded from the Salidar Six and Nisao. Yes, fealty is hardly the same as the near compulsion of the Oath Rod, but I still don't see how Egwene, if she is to be the character she is from before, misses the obvious link. This too, was never addressed.

3) She'd have realized the importance of fostering friendships between the Ajahs. We got some of this, but the ridiculously simple remedies she suggests, and the oohinag and aaahing by the women she suggests it to is beyond ridiculous. Instead, I suspect RJ would have had her look for Aes Sedai who seemed to work together, and discover the Ajah Head plot. Add that to the BA hunters, and Egwene has a team that can pull Elaida down and get to work in clearing the divisions in the Tower.

She certainly saw this as her due, but even in tFoH, we do see her give at least lip service to some level of cooperation and accepting that her own power was a result of support from certain people. Her flaw is that when she got frustrated by this (as did Egwene) she decided to deal with it by isolating herself further, and increasingly using her power as a cudgel to remind everyone who was the boss. If you compare that to the mirror chapters for Egwene (especially in aCoS), where she is even more mocked and ashamed of her lack of power. Egwene's handling of that is not perfect, of course, but RJ does show her doing a very realistic effort at following the best possible path.

Not just the Blue. Most of the Greens were in on this too. As Min reports, it was a bunch of Warders and Blue+Green sisters who tried to rescue Siuan and Leane.

It isn't quite as simple as that. For one, Elaida had Siuan declared a Darkfriend, which was just plain unnecessary. What that did do, I'm sure, is make many an Aes Sedai question what the hell was going on. Imagine you wake up tomorrow to find that the President was impeached in the middle of the night, with no mention of an actual trial, and bundled off to Guantanamo Bay for questioning, and declared a member of the Al Qaida who plotted to help Osama Bin Laden escape...

And Elaida's maneuvers weren't legal. Siuan definitely deserved a trial, and as she so confidently predicted to the dismay of many Elaida supporters, such a trial would pretty much exonerate her of any trumped up charges they might have come up with for her stilling. Keeping secrets is not a stilling offense, especially when Siuan could have truthfully stated she knew the Black Ajah was real. And she certainly didn't have Taim released.

The absence of the trial is what did Elaida in. Oh, she may have held some kind of sham court, but that isn't what is demanded. And the murder of Alric was definitely not legal.

Unlikely. That would not have them sending out messages to collect women from multiple Ajahs there. That even Romanda showed up there so quickly is a pretty obvious sign that even if they didn't have a clear notion of what exactly they planned, they were certainly looking at long term rebellion against the Tower.

Were they? For one, Sheriam led them then, and there was no way her instructions were anything but to foster this Rebellion. For another, Carlinya is quite clear:

"“I do not say this to be cruel. We do not believe the charges against you—despite your traveling companion—or we would not be here, but you cannot assume your old places among us, and that is a simple fact.”"

She can't lie, and she makes it clear that she at least is there because she doesn't believe the moronic charges Elaida came up with. She also says they're considering going back, but I don't think they had any notion of actually doing that.

A lot happened between Siuan coming in and Egwene coming in. In that time, opposition to Elaida solidified, enough that Tarna saw it as fact, and sent a missive back to Elaida confirming that there was going to be no quick reconciliation. They gave her no hint of budging, remember? This is probably very strongly due to Siuan's lie, of course.

Whatever cause they think they had, it was certainly not fully legal. Her deposing alone was. Her stilling without a trial was not. Had Elaida had the sense to have her exiled or something, she would have had a much more easy reign. But she overextended, as usual, and I'm sure Alviarin and Galina gleefully acquiesced at this chance to really divide the Tower as they had been ordered, while also making sure Siuan could never reveal anything she may know of the BA.

She certainly did with the lies about Logain and her initial desire to see the Reds completely dissolved. But I never found much doubt that she also genuinely knew Elaida would be a disaster with Rand. I think she had a firmer grasp of how Elaida saw herself than most other people around her.

To the contrary, had Siuan been left where she was, Rand would never have ended up distrusting Aes Sedai as much, and given that Perrin, and Mat remember their meeting with her as being insaney scary but also very blunt and open, compared to other Aes Sedai, he might have been a lot more open to her. She was a proto-Cadsuane, in most ways, and barring Rand's interactions with Elaida's emissaries, I think he would have been a lot more receptive to that kind of dealing than he ended up being.

That said, I am also sensitive to Moiraine's belief that Siuan wouldn't have been able to sit still as the world burned. I don't see her ever being dumb enough to kidnap Rand, or imprison him, but she would have served him political pickles to unravel that would definitely have harmed his chances. She wanted to bring the leaders of the world to follow him as bloodlessly as possible, and that, while a worthy goal for most times, was never likely for the end of the world.

Really? Frankly, that seems to be a very Sanderson-ian view of things. See, you're totally right that both were affected by the institutionally of the Tower. So some of their acts and situations seem similar. But there's a lot of subtle difference in how they approach things, and how their somewhat similar struggles with the limits of the Amyrlin's power lead to profoundly different things.

As I see it, Elaida struggled with those limits by trying to grasp more power. Egwene sought to transcend them, whether by opening the Novice book, or wanting to end the use of OP strength as a signifier of anything, or wanting an alliance with the Wise Ones and the Sea Folk.

They both trampled on laws and customs. But Elaida almost exclusively did so to live her dream as the most important woman in the world. For Egwene, a big part of it was about the job well done, and RJ even had that terribly unsubtle prologue to Ravens to show us that. Egwene doesn't ever have a thought about being glorified in history books. And that difference in intent informs also their different approaches, and ultimately the results.

Hardly. Siuan had much better reasons to resent Elaida than Joline did Merilille. More importantly, till Elaida deposed Siuan, Siuan didn't do anything with her resentments. Elaida was the one who let her resentment over her belief that Siuan told on her to Merean guide her actions, which played right into Alviarin's hands.

And there are tons of actual issues of disagreement between Siuan and Elaida. Rand, of course, is the most glaringly obvious one. If you can imagine Elaida ever being pleased he took the Stone and had Callandor, do let me know what alternate version of the story you've been reading. Siuan had no issues with Rand being free, nor any delusions that he was some sort of crutch for her to gain fame. She knew how dangerous he was, and never showed any inclination to imprison him. Once she knew the Foresaken were free, she tossed any plans of educating him in the Tower as well, and conspired to have him become more or less the ruler of Illian. This is very much a practical difference between her and Elaida, as is how they dealt with the Hall, or anyone for that matter.

You brought up Fain, and his own assessment is both perfectly valid and very telling:

And that refusal to bend is very much a practical difference. It totally differentiates how they deal with any number of situations.

[quote]The point I am getting at, is RJ did a fantastic job of setting up a plausible conflict, which satisfies the shallow readers who just want motion, physical conflict and One Power duels, while having layers and subtexts for the rest of us to peel back. He made it so there was a lot of shades of gray to it as you suggest was intended for the conflict between Egwene and Rand. But once Sanderson took over the resolution, he himself does not seem to have had sufficient grasp of the material to understand all the levels and layers, and resolve them satisfactorily. Like trying to suture an abdominal wound with only a middle school science understanding of human anatomy. Sure, it looks as simple as pulling the wound shut and sewing it up, but what about the layers of skin, fat & muscle and the peritoneum and all the other crap under there. If Sanderson can't remember Aiel terminology, or whose entourage a particular character belongs to, or how well a character has actually demonstrated an ability to write, or that Aviendha already independently came to the exact same conclusion he has Nakomi guide her to in such a torturous manner, or that WoT wouldn't have anything called a devilfish, it's a pretty good bet that he had no idea why the Aes Sedai were REALLY fighting, because it was never explicitly stated. So Egwene's opinions on right and wrong in the Tower conflict change like six times in tGS alone. So much of what she says in tGS directly contradicts earlier material, not just her prior opinions, but her certain knowledge of characters, that it is impossible to discern whether or not she is being sincere or manipulative. And Sanderson forfeits the reader's trust so fast, that we cannot even be sure if a discrepancy is deliberate or not, which further clouds the picture of where exactly she stands. My rule of thumb, for the most part, is that given how utterly devoid of subtlety he usually is, and how explicit and overt his exposition usually is, most discrepancies are exactly that. They are not him sneaking in little things to indicate all is not what it appears. They are not changes that lightly hint at altered mindsets of the PoV characters. They are simply mistakes. For example, in tGS, I wondered if people started referring to Rand as "the Dragon" instead of "the Dragon Reborn" or "the Lord Dragon" because they were seeing him as more and more of a remote figure more like the legendary being, instead of the human leader. But I think if Sanderson had intended that effect, he would have had someone awkwardly express as much to hit the reader over the head with it. I always read Elayne's infamous bath scene as a bit of instruction to the modern reader who is ignorant of what ruling entails, just how much work the job is for anyone who takes it seriously, how in spite of the trappings of luxury, she really does not get to enjoy them, that she only has servants waiting on her hand and foot to allow her use her own hands and feet to work some more. If Sanderson had been in charge of that scene, he might have missed the message altogether, and had Birgitte rebuke Elayne for wasting time with a bath with some bad jokes, or if RJ's notes had described in small words the effect he was trying to achieve with that scene, Sanderson would have had Elayne say "Wow, ruling is such hard work that I cannot even really enjoy this one simple pleasure I wanted for myself - a nice bath for a few minutes. Instead, I have to hear reports, endure interruptions for vital negotiations, and maintain a good facade so the servants will gossip the way I want!" In other words, the man has no subtlety. But how much was there that was supposed to be subtle, that he put in without understanding why RJ wanted it, and maybe botched the narration, and how much did he see as superfluous and cut, because he missed what it would signal to literate fans, and so on.
Yeah. Sanderson really botched a lot, and his inability to have two people be right in the same scene, and the need to have one trump the other all the time definitely did not help either. I'm always flabbergasted by the people who claim he got most characters just right.

I frankly don't care about that "debate". It is meaningless unless we could have at least divined where RJ was going with the character. Maybe what you see as earlier flaws were set up for major redemption. Or what I see as earlier awesomeness is set up for a later fall. That Egwene al'Vere died at the end of Knife of Dreams with honey in her tea. Some flashes remain in the clearly RJ chapters of tGS, but that's the end of that.

Brandon has even been cagey with whether RJ intended for Egwene to die. The manner of her death, while thematically paralleling and mirroring all the right stuff, is still clearly something RJ only barely outlined, since the writing there was clearly not him at all.

In some ways, she is the most effective character to kill off. Of them all, she had the most plans for the future, and the greatest ability to guide the flow of the future. Seeing that cut off can really hit home the fact that the Last Battle matter, token though her death may be, in some ways. There's even a long term balance, seeing how Latra Pose outlived Lews Therin for so long after the end of the last age. But I can't really debate the character with a straight face once we move past KoD.