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Re: Re Bryne gban007 Send a noteboard - 29/04/2015 07:37:48 PM

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While I do agree with the sentiment that Egwene treated Siuan / Gawyn unfairly in comparison to Bryne, I think he felt obliged to go to prevent Siaun and Gawyn dying, and at least made his views on the overall enterprise clear.

But wouldn't it have been better for them to have died before reaching Egwene, so they would not have absconded with her and ruined whatever plan she had for when she woke up in the Tower? That's the only way you can go if you run with her logic.

I wasn't trying to run with her logic, which would have logically led to them dying as a better outcome, just defending Bryne's position on it, who didn't want Siaun at least to die.

While at times bonding is compared to sex, the view seems to shift a lot depending on the view of the Aes Sedai at the time, I am sure there was an example where they said a young Aes Sedai had a certain warder in mind, and in punishment for her behaviour they forced her to bond someone else while the one she wanted was bonded by someone else again - if the comparison to sex holds true all the time, it paints an interesting picture of what occurred in this instance.

Interesting is an interesting word for it. Even if you set aside the issues with doing that, recall that this incident was at the height of the Trolloc Wars, and in order to teach the prospective sister a lesson about bonding a Warder a day before it was legal, they kept her in the kitchens for two years, while people bled and died and were desperate for every ounce of help, such as another Aes Sedai could have provided! Even as fallen as the Tower is in strength and knowledge 2000 years later, a Great Captain is telling Moiraine that a single sister at Tarwin's Gap would be worth thousands of troops. The White Tower held back the equivalent of thousands of soldiers from the the front lines of a war with the Shadow, over a technicality. Hell, in the very scene where Egwene makes that comparison, Siuan is speculating that Myrelle's & Nisao's warders will be passed to other sisters as punishment for the Aes Sedais' "transgression" with Lan.

At this point "Well the Tower does X, so a comparable action can't be as evil as you imply" is not much of an argument.

Ecrasez la infame!


Yeah, had forgotten about the wider situation, and that they were willing to remove such assets from the front line to serve a point.

My point here is more that I'm not sure that bonding does equate to sex, or that forcing into bonding is necessarily evil, as the Aes Sedai only seem to regard it as evil when it suits them, and the rest of the time it is fine, and so perhaps it isn't evil, the Aes Sedai just like to portray it as such in circumstances that run up against their traditions and so trigger a strong reaction, justified or not.




Later on Egwene didn't seem to have much problems with the idea of forcing Aes Sedai to bond warders for the Last Battle, and the reaction to Ashaman bonding Aes Sedai against their will seemed more about the power imbalance than impropriety as such.

This is Egwene. Power is way more important than violations of one's person.


For the first example, yes, for the second example it seemed (though I may have misinterpreted) that this view was held by many of the Aes Sedai, and I guess I also struggle to see why if they thought it was equivalent to rape, that it was okay to accept Rand's offer to basically force Ashaman to submit to being bonded by Aes Sedai, but they didn't seem to take issue with that side of it.
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