I was never referring to the taint of SL-- I was referring to Mordeth's ability to persuade(spoiler)
Matrimony Cauthon Send a noteboard - 02/10/2009 11:31:15 PM
Mordeth's persuasion abilities were what created the SL taint in the first place. Mordeth prayed on and amplified the suspicions, fears, and dark tendencies in people's minds.
RJ may have said that Elaida wasn't tainted by the dagger, but we already knew that. Elaida doesn't have the ragged look of the people that Fain has actually corrupted with the dagger such as the whitecloaks and Toram.
However, I think Fain was very effective in amplifying Elaida's fears, paranoia's, and suspicions to the point that she will never be able to rectify her differences with Rand, the Blue Ajah, and other Aes Sedai. In many ways, Egwene is trying to keep Tar Valon from becoming another Shadar Logoth--- right now no one in the tower trusts each other. Once more rumors of the black ajah come out, the tower is going to be in a state of hysteria.
Fain DID have an effect on Elaida and I think people ignore it way too much. Elaida has become much more stubborn, obstinate, and dictatorial as the story has progressed. I believe her inability to trust anyone (which is a characteristic of Mordeth's persuasion abilities) has led her down her current road where she now has gone to extremes such as wanting all Aes Sedai to swear an oath to the Amyrlin. Much of this is Elaida's own personality trait, but an effective manipulator such as Mordeth is able to heighten these traits to maximum effect. That is what Fain has been trying to do all along with leaders such as Turak, Niall, the rebel Cairhien, and Elaida.
RJ may have said that Elaida wasn't tainted by the dagger, but we already knew that. Elaida doesn't have the ragged look of the people that Fain has actually corrupted with the dagger such as the whitecloaks and Toram.
However, I think Fain was very effective in amplifying Elaida's fears, paranoia's, and suspicions to the point that she will never be able to rectify her differences with Rand, the Blue Ajah, and other Aes Sedai. In many ways, Egwene is trying to keep Tar Valon from becoming another Shadar Logoth--- right now no one in the tower trusts each other. Once more rumors of the black ajah come out, the tower is going to be in a state of hysteria.
Fain DID have an effect on Elaida and I think people ignore it way too much. Elaida has become much more stubborn, obstinate, and dictatorial as the story has progressed. I believe her inability to trust anyone (which is a characteristic of Mordeth's persuasion abilities) has led her down her current road where she now has gone to extremes such as wanting all Aes Sedai to swear an oath to the Amyrlin. Much of this is Elaida's own personality trait, but an effective manipulator such as Mordeth is able to heighten these traits to maximum effect. That is what Fain has been trying to do all along with leaders such as Turak, Niall, the rebel Cairhien, and Elaida.
He told us that Fain could not communicate the Taint of SL before he got the Dagger back.
He has not 'tainted' Niall or Elaida. He played on their prejudices, fertilized suspicions and hatred that were already there. With Mordeth's tongue, not with the Taint. With the same poisonous tongue Mordeth use in Aridhol. He didn't need any taint or power to get there, it's his philosophy that ended up killing everyone and creating the Taint.
It's no wonder Fain thinks he's worked wonders with Elaida. He doesn't know much she already hated Rand simply for what he was. He tought what she said, how she answered to him, what he saw in her eyes etc. was mostly his doing. It wasn't. No more than Niall's prejudices came from Fain. Elaida has always been this way - just think of all the prejudices and lies behind her accusations against Siuan. Those were lies to her, she believes them.
People tainted by SL end up like Mat and Toram Riatin. Elaida would be dead by now had she been tainted by SL.
Elaida has always been overambitious and power-hungry and with a very mean streak (as far back as NS she had that). She is a control freak. The more she senses power and control slip from her, the harsher she becomes to get it back. From her original council, from Alviarin, from the Hall etc. In her mind, this is all supposed to end with her triumph. The more she goes, and the more triumph escapes her, the more willing she is to consider any mean as justified to obtain this foretold triumph.
If Elaida's tainted by anything, it's tainted by power.
He has not 'tainted' Niall or Elaida. He played on their prejudices, fertilized suspicions and hatred that were already there. With Mordeth's tongue, not with the Taint. With the same poisonous tongue Mordeth use in Aridhol. He didn't need any taint or power to get there, it's his philosophy that ended up killing everyone and creating the Taint.
It's no wonder Fain thinks he's worked wonders with Elaida. He doesn't know much she already hated Rand simply for what he was. He tought what she said, how she answered to him, what he saw in her eyes etc. was mostly his doing. It wasn't. No more than Niall's prejudices came from Fain. Elaida has always been this way - just think of all the prejudices and lies behind her accusations against Siuan. Those were lies to her, she believes them.
People tainted by SL end up like Mat and Toram Riatin. Elaida would be dead by now had she been tainted by SL.
Elaida has always been overambitious and power-hungry and with a very mean streak (as far back as NS she had that). She is a control freak. The more she senses power and control slip from her, the harsher she becomes to get it back. From her original council, from Alviarin, from the Hall etc. In her mind, this is all supposed to end with her triumph. The more she goes, and the more triumph escapes her, the more willing she is to consider any mean as justified to obtain this foretold triumph.
If Elaida's tainted by anything, it's tainted by power.
Why is Elaida getting so hard and dark? (A quick survey)
- 02/10/2009 04:35:06 AM
953 Views
I'm surprised so many people ignore the possibility of Fain so much
- 02/10/2009 05:20:04 AM
575 Views
Because RJ told us to...
- 02/10/2009 05:10:09 PM
619 Views
I disagree.
- 02/10/2009 06:14:43 PM
565 Views
*sigh*
- 02/10/2009 08:15:43 PM
586 Views
I was never referring to the taint of SL-- I was referring to Mordeth's ability to persuade(spoiler)
- 02/10/2009 11:31:15 PM
526 Views