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Thanks Dom, I'm genuinely puzzled, though... Shannow Send a noteboard - 07/05/2014 09:04:08 AM

If this entire list is indeed linear, why did RJ take such great care to imply a vastly different power gap in the books? The examples that I can pull off the top of my head are legion. Together they form a consistent picture of a top Forsaken channeler being the equivalent of between 3-5 normal Aes Sedai.

Just a random bunch of examples:

Asmodean, Rahvin etc. all emphasizing the danger of a circle of 13. If even Moiraine on her own has 80% the effective strenth of Ishamael or Lanfear, all this talk of circles of 13 is utterly absurd. The Forsaken would be in danger if even 2 average Aes Sedai were present.

Lews Therin never feeling threatened by Allana and Verin - who are both above 50% of Lanfear's strength, according to the linear list, and therefore together they significantly exceed his effective strength.

Damer Flinn plus Sarene plus Corelle EXACTLY matching Demandred's lone, unaided strength. And this in a mixed gender circle, which is stated to be more effective than a single gender one.

Loial stating that both Guare Amalasan and Roalain Darksbane each defeated 6 Sisters who tried to overcome them. Even 6 Daigian's would be about twice Lanfear's strength. And 6 average Sisters would be about 350% of Lanfear's strength. No linking loss is going to bring that down to even close to a contestable match.

A weakened, exhausted Rand breaking free from 3 Sisters, which means he had to vastly exceed their strength, since he was already cut off from the Source. These were Red sisters, trained and specially selected to capture male channelers.

Logain apparently being able to come close to breaking free from a shield held by 5 Sisters. Even Daigian on the linear scale would be one third the strength of Lanfear. Since all 5 sisters had to be stronger than Daigian, we can quite comfortably say that their combined strength must have been around 200% that of Lanfear. Even if the linking loss is massive - which certainly is not the suggestion in the text, by the way - that would still leave the shield well above Logain's strength.

For him to be break free of it, he would have to EXCEED its strength significantly, as RJ repeatedly stated in the books. A weaker person can hold a shield once it is in place. So for Logain to even stand a chance of breaking free from a shield, he has to exceed its strength significantly.

Look at the circle Arangar was facing at the Cleansing. 4 channelers. And it was a close run battle.

The Graendal/Verin battle was skewed slightly by the unknown strengths of the opposing angreal, but even so, Graendal's angreal is stated to be quite weak. And again, it was a close run thing.

Aviendha stating that Egwene was as strong as Amys and Melaine combined.

The list goes on and on.

The point is, Moiraine being at 80% the strength of Lanfear utterly makes a mockery of the carefully crafted impression RJ created of how a Forsaken level channeler matches up against a modern Sister, and makes the above examples incompatible with the strength list.

That's why I'm waiting for actual notes on the actual comparative strength between some known channelers, because it would be very interesting to see how RJ reconciles this with the text.

This message last edited by Shannow on 07/05/2014 at 09:04:36 AM
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