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Re: Nice, thanks ... Sidious Send a noteboard - 01/10/2009 04:58:02 PM
I suppose if enhanced saidar only got you to potency X, and saidar/saidin combo got you to potency Y, where Y>X, and Nynaeve judged the fireball to be potency Y, then her comments would still allow for my idea.

However ... I don't buy it . It seems clear, from your quote, that RJ wanted the reader to understand that it takes saidar & saidin combined to create the more potent fireball. And consequently that my original suggestion is wrong

Therefore, Sidious must be right - the only additional benefit a mixed circle provides over an unmixed circle is that associated with combining saidar & saidin into one weave. So (for example), if one man links with 1+ women, and only channels saidin to create a weave, that weave will be no more potent than what he could have created unlinked. Actually, it would probably be slightly less potent, due to the small loss of strength that occurs when linking.

I say "probably" because it's not 100% clear (to me, anyway) how to allocate that "link-loss" between the circle members. For example, let's say two women of strength 10 link. And let's say that, due to link-loss, the combined strength is 18 (not 20). Is that because the two women each get reduced to strength 9, or because the leader remains at 10, but the non-leader gets reduced to 8?

In that example, the answer doesn't really matter since the net effect is the same. But consider the case of 10 women of strength 10 linking. In the former case, their combined strength would be 90 (10*9). Whereas in the latter cae, their combined strength would only be 82 (10 + 9*8 ).

I think the former case is probably the right answer, but as I said I'm not 100% sure.


They way I understand it, the reduction in strength only affects the members of the circle and not the leader. The leader can access all of his/her strength, but the other members cannot because there is a metaphysical narrowing of all the other conduits as they enter the leader.

Thus if 10 women of 10 strength link, their combined strength will be (1x10) + (9x9) = 91

I also therefore don't agree that a male will actually be weaker if he only channels saidin in a mixed link. Only he can lead, and he can access all of his strength, therefore his strength will be the same.

I sort of see it like this... say if Sandomere and Ayako link to make a fireball, and he has to lead. He must decide on how much saidin to use, and how much saidar. The effective strength of the fireball will be something like this IMO...

Saidin Saidar Strength of Weave
100 0 100
75 25 150
50 50 300
25 75 150
0 100 100

There are many other factors though. The two powers may be exponential when added, but it also depends on how strong he is compared to her. If Rand linked with Moiraine, I doubt he'd allocate equal portions to a fireball. Likewise, a woman might be stressed to weave Fire whereas a male might find it easy. We already can see that if a male and female link they can make a bigger gateway than Rand can, which means that the benefit is enormous.

Wheel of Time board admin
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Yes; somewhat. - 25/09/2009 10:57:35 PM 718 Views
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Agreed, plus some numbers ... - 28/09/2009 07:50:54 PM 595 Views
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I understand what you're saying ... - 30/09/2009 04:04:17 PM 616 Views
Indeed - 30/09/2009 04:32:37 PM 572 Views
Re: Indeed - 30/09/2009 07:05:13 PM 617 Views
Some proof against your idea... - 01/10/2009 03:37:48 AM 591 Views
Nice, thanks ... - 01/10/2009 02:00:24 PM 576 Views
Re: Nice, thanks ... - 01/10/2009 04:58:02 PM 625 Views
That makes more sense, to me ... - 01/10/2009 06:44:44 PM 685 Views
Re: That makes more sense, to me ... - 03/10/2009 06:53:45 AM 694 Views
Re: Male/Female circles - 27/09/2009 02:19:31 PM 593 Views
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