Active Users:618 Time:23/12/2024 12:54:07 AM
Re: I was especially disappointed about this.... DomA Send a noteboard - 17/02/2013 10:51:54 PM
perhaps more than any other plot conclusion (or lack thereof). The AoL AS and the relationship they shared with the Da'shain Aiel was hinted at, but never truly explained in detail. Going all the way back to the prologue and Rand's fever dreams in tEotW and his visions in the Glass Columns in Rhuideen, we were shown Singing (capitalized as a Talent). And in tGH, Rand has numerous pov's that link/liken channeling to singing or music.

I can only speculate that the Dragon Aura powers were at work most of the time, (like the orchard after his epiphany on Dragonmount and the giant trees at Merrilor). However, his encounter with Tuon in Ebou Dar was apparently different, and appears to be Rand using his Singing Talent.

We really can't blame Sanderson either, since he said RJ intentionally left the Tinkers without finding their Song. I was really looking forward to seeing the land being Healed following the LB, (at least some future inference? Something! ), and the abrupt conclusion left me unfulfilled.

Too many plotlines with no payoffs is more and more my how I am remembering this series. I can't help but think about those Mirror Worlds: What might have been....


I guess the Encyclopedia will have more explicit explanations about the AOL society.

I'm not too disappointed about the Tinkers story line being left open ended. In fact, you might say I was surprised RJ did it but at the same time pleased he did. I had many Singing theories as it seems inescapable it would be brought back, but as I re read now, I notice plenty of foreshadowing for the Aiel's final role.

I always found RJ very ambiguous with the Tinkers. There were those who defended them systematically, and those who judged them very harshly (Cannoli comes to mind). I've always.. wondered and was more ambivalent. It seemed to me RJ was fairly positive in his depictions of their ideals but at the same time his real feelings toward the Tinkers were very critical and they were more than a little a parody of the Flower Power and anti-Vietnam movements. I really wondered a lot if he truly intended to give pacifism a place and purpose in the final confrontation as so many theories suggested. A few various commentaries on RL he made lead me to think he had himself pretty much Perrin's vision that there's nothing wrong with the ideals if they preserve peace but faced with war or evil it was sheer idiocy to adopt or keep to that philosophy, but a little more reproving than Perrin is in the series even.

So in my current reread, I'm more consciously looking at them from this more reproving/critical perspective, even with Aram who becomes more a cautionary tale about going from one extreme to the other and Perrin's inability to understand/see what was going on, or help, because trying to stay balanced was natural, and a constant preoccupation, to him.

Nothing stops the Tinker from spreading ideals of pacifism now, however. But they won't be able to do it with this aura of admiration and those "magical powers" their ancestors had in the AOL.

By the end RJ was pretty keen to make us understand the AOL was far, far from an ideal world. The Aiel, in a way, are more blatantly symbolic of how the Third Age has reshaped humanity to be stronger and more resilient.

Looking at the ending, it seems fairly obvious that the AOLers were trying to bring about this perfect, totally utopian world that in their ideals was essentially the same as Rand's Utopia during the confrontation with the DO, in the process removing more and more what made humans human. They constantly restrained or eliminated choices, sweeping reality under the carpet. You were a criminal and got caught, your were bond to ever commit these crimes again. There's no notion of amend or reformation, you're just.. bound. We see with AS were this lead. They care little about "honor and obligation", they largely leave the Oath Rod determine for them what's wrong or right. They no longer questioned if deceiving was right or wrong, if placing yourself willingly in mortal danger made it any less wrong to use the OP as a weapon, if there could be situations in which making weapons might be right. If the OR let them do something, it was right.

The AOL reeked quite a bit of "velvet totalitarianism". You were born Aiel, you died Aiel, or if you could channel you had to become Servant of All. A place for everyone, and everyone in his place.

And Rand/LTT hinted strongly at the end it was starting to tear apart at the seams and it was a matter of time and perhaps not much before that world found a way to fall into war despite having tried to remove all the old classic motives for war.

The % of followers of the Shadow in the Third Age is very, very significantly lower than in the AOL.

I also think we have to interpret the ending as a criticism of the monolithic "Aes Sedai Guild" of the AOL. RJ was very insistent in the notes the various organizations of channelers were not to be merged. It seems very much to me that RJ meant us to understand the AOL had removed way too many choices, was way too monolithic.

I guess it's not quite a coincidence it's in that Age the weakness in the Pattern returns and a confrontation with Shai'tan is programmed. My reasoning on this would be that the Creator is probably by nature not very different and would like perfection without Shai'tan too, but he made Rand's choice and programmed the Wheel and its parameters, and made it so he could no longer interfere. The AOL might be the Age in the turning in which humanity gets too close to achieving Rand's Utopia.

So in the end I'm not too surprised RJ didn't want to bring back too much from the AOL. It would be repeating the same mistake.

As Harriet pointed out, he also wanted to end by giving us the notion that between powers like Perrin's, Min's, Rand's, even Nakomi's the fourth Age could rapidly become a very different Age than it's two predecessors. There's the "magic" of the Eelfinn and Aelfinn still around too.. and now we know there's a tie between them and the evil of Shadar Logoth (they helped Mordeth create it, then guided Rand to use it to cleanse saidin, and it's Mat they manipulated who ended up putting a final end to it. But the fact Birgitte considers them as so different from humans they should be regarded as evil remains. My guess is that they feared the Shadow as anyone, but now it's out of the way humanity isn't quite done with Sindhol. I think it's fairly obvious in a past Age they dominated, in the Age before the channelers's worldview of a Pattern and Wheel dominated beliefs and it was rather the religion of the Aelfinn and their Great Serpent that was dominant.)
Reply to message
Purpose of the Greenmen - 17/02/2013 04:52:04 PM 1861 Views
Re: Purpose of the Greenmen - 17/02/2013 05:19:18 PM 1272 Views
I was especially disappointed about this.... - 17/02/2013 09:38:08 PM 1383 Views
Re: I was especially disappointed about this.... - 17/02/2013 10:51:54 PM 1343 Views
I like your view of the AOL - 18/02/2013 06:47:20 AM 1011 Views
Also chora trees - 18/02/2013 05:14:45 PM 1024 Views
Whoa whoa whoa. The Finns helped make SL? Where did I miss this? *NM* - 18/02/2013 10:25:30 PM 545 Views
Old Q&A with Sanderson - 18/02/2013 10:43:20 PM 1013 Views
Well I'll be. Thanks for the heads up on that. - 19/02/2013 01:40:00 AM 982 Views
Re: I was especially disappointed about this.... - 21/02/2013 02:06:52 PM 891 Views
To show everyone Tolkien wasn't the only one with talking trees. *NM* - 18/02/2013 12:00:48 AM 449 Views
LOL.... or Nazgul *NM* - 18/02/2013 12:14:47 PM 471 Views
I always perceived it..... - 18/02/2013 11:19:19 PM 1050 Views
Re: Purpose of the Greenmen - 16/03/2013 09:32:50 PM 896 Views

Reply to Message