I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. )
Joel Send a noteboard - 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM
She could have had 100 seasoned veterans and they would have easily fallen to the Shaido... her kidnapping cannot be held against her in the least. You think she should have been hiding in a hole to prevent anything bad from happening to her?
If she had had 100, say, Borderlander regulars, or other Aiel, she probably would at least have had a decent chance to escape. A hundred teenaged Cairhienin nobles playing at being Aiel, however, were useless; she might as well have ridden out alone. Yet, and once again, I do not blame her for her kidnapping; it WAS nonetheless the ultimate cause of Hoppers eternal death (by design, though that was not Sammael and Greandel intended result.) Faile is not responsible nor accountable for that, because she is a fictional character with limited knowledge and even less prescience.
Jordan, however, is not similarly excused by ignorance or unintended consequences: Hopper, like Bela, died because he DELIBERATELY created a loveable and blameless character integral to the narrative just so he could twist a knife it the readers gut by gratuitously torturing and killing said character. Unlike with Rolan and Bela, I do not fault Faile personally for Hoppers eternal death, but he is brutally and permanently killed for the sole purpose of adding color to and advancing her narrative and Perrins, which makes them both that much more infuriating. It is kind of like how Fain hates the ta'veren because he knows getting at them was the sole reason the DO ripped him apart and remade him, destroying him in the process.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 19/01/2013 at 08:09:17 PM
Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now
14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM
- 3031 Views
Faile made Perrin less interesting
14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM
- 1054 Views
She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it.
14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM
- 1151 Views
I skipped those chapters during my re-read
14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM
- 1281 Views
I do not blame you, but that practically means skipping TPoD through KoD.
15/01/2013 06:16:17 AM
- 978 Views
Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it.
15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM
- 1007 Views
You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters.
15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM
- 1010 Views
There were plenty of hard choices, but they might have been handled better.
15/01/2013 06:58:30 AM
- 1108 Views
Though I too have wished for them to make really hard choices...
15/01/2013 09:37:34 AM
- 1059 Views
But they DO make hard choices; they just face relatively few hard consequences.
15/01/2013 10:08:19 AM
- 909 Views
Rand certainly flirted with the moral Event Horizon a few times, so did some of the others
15/01/2013 10:33:23 AM
- 1100 Views
Mostly it's because it's clear in RJ's eyes that doing something like the things you suggest is wron
15/01/2013 12:41:03 PM
- 989 Views
You obviously have a much lower threshold than I do in defining "hard choices". *NM*
15/01/2013 03:47:52 PM
- 514 Views
We are introduced to them as they choose between abandoning home w/ a stranger v. staying to die
15/01/2013 04:46:02 PM
- 941 Views
Joel, I just said I disagreed with you. I didn't want to debate this series for the sake of debate. *NM*
15/01/2013 05:43:55 PM
- 491 Views
Also, how is choosing not to die a hard choice?
15/01/2013 05:46:46 PM
- 838 Views
Because they had only a strange witchs word they would die, and leaving w/ her was perilous, too.
15/01/2013 06:17:16 PM
- 851 Views
Jordan said he put some of himself in all the ta'veren, but its clearly strongest with Perrin.
15/01/2013 06:27:10 AM
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I'm glad you have seen the Truth.
14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM
- 974 Views
It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose.
14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM
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I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly.
14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM
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In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela
14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM
- 916 Views
I think she fed her an apple once in TV or somewhere, too, but otherwise she ignored her.
15/01/2013 06:12:26 AM
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Dramatic much? Bella lived a good life in TV and later in Salidar
20/01/2013 12:54:15 AM
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Actually, I never understood why people LOVE that horse so much. She is just a horse! *NM*
15/01/2013 07:52:29 AM
- 539 Views
Pony. She is a pony. A loyal, goodnatured, overperforming and underappreciated pony.
15/01/2013 08:32:21 AM
- 999 Views
honestly a child and a horse and you think the kid should be butchered?
20/01/2013 12:58:32 AM
- 985 Views
The whole series is based upon the love of Bela and Narg and her struggle to come to terms with his
16/01/2013 04:01:59 AM
- 785 Views
The real problem
15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM
- 921 Views
Faile will surely domineer someone into pulling Tams carts for him.
15/01/2013 03:04:35 PM
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The women in WoT are monsters
15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM
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I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic.
15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM
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I agree completely...
15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM
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Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power
20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM
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Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series
20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM
- 833 Views
Tell me then...
18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM
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That's a fallacious question
18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM
- 985 Views
Are you saying...
18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM
- 904 Views
That is a pathetic answer.
19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM
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You're a pathetic ass
19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM
- 885 Views
LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM*
19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM
- 442 Views
Oh, gosh, this could take a while.
18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM
- 935 Views
How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death?
19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM
- 848 Views
Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped
19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM
- 771 Views
Her kidnapping...
19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM
- 796 Views
I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. )
19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM
- 854 Views
No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped
20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM
- 821 Views
Wow...
19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM
- 926 Views