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I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. ) Joel Send a noteboard - 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM
She could have had 100 seasoned veterans and they would have easily fallen to the Shaido... her kidnapping cannot be held against her in the least. You think she should have been hiding in a hole to prevent anything bad from happening to her?

If she had had 100, say, Borderlander regulars, or other Aiel, she probably would at least have had a decent chance to escape. A hundred teenaged Cairhienin nobles playing at being Aiel, however, were useless; she might as well have ridden out alone. Yet, and once again, I do not blame her for her kidnapping; it WAS nonetheless the ultimate cause of Hoppers eternal death (by design, though that was not Sammael and Greandel intended result.) Faile is not responsible nor accountable for that, because she is a fictional character with limited knowledge and even less prescience.

Jordan, however, is not similarly excused by ignorance or unintended consequences: Hopper, like Bela, died because he DELIBERATELY created a loveable and blameless character integral to the narrative just so he could twist a knife it the readers gut by gratuitously torturing and killing said character. Unlike with Rolan and Bela, I do not fault Faile personally for Hoppers eternal death, but he is brutally and permanently killed for the sole purpose of adding color to and advancing her narrative and Perrins, which makes them both that much more infuriating. It is kind of like how Fain hates the ta'veren because he knows getting at them was the sole reason the DO ripped him apart and remade him, destroying him in the process.
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This message last edited by Joel on 19/01/2013 at 08:09:17 PM
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Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now - 14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM 3112 Views
Faile made Perrin less interesting - 14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM 1118 Views
She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. - 14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM 1225 Views
I skipped those chapters during my re-read - 14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM 1365 Views
Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. - 15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM 1083 Views
You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters. - 15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM 1080 Views
I think this is why I still enjoy Rand as a character so much - 15/01/2013 03:37:52 AM 999 Views
I'm glad you have seen the Truth. - 14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM 1044 Views
It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose. - 14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM 1030 Views
I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly. - 14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM 1114 Views
Works for me. - 15/01/2013 06:13:16 AM 2058 Views
In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela - 14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM 984 Views
Bela has been there for Egwene all the time. - 14/01/2013 10:16:22 PM 1199 Views
Egwene and Bela - 15/01/2013 08:13:17 AM 956 Views
I thought Noal was riding Bela... *NM* - 14/01/2013 10:47:56 PM 503 Views
I did, too, at first, but "horse"=/="pony." - 15/01/2013 06:08:03 AM 937 Views
The real problem - 15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM 1021 Views
The women in WoT are monsters - 15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM 1465 Views
I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic. - 15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM 1247 Views
Oh...I think we know :-) *NM* - 16/01/2013 04:31:18 PM 598 Views
I try to give them, or rather her, the benefit of a doubt. - 16/01/2013 04:48:22 PM 908 Views
Re: Tuon - 15/01/2013 03:33:34 PM 1177 Views
I had not noticed that before, but you are right. - 15/01/2013 07:45:53 PM 959 Views
I agree completely... - 15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM 1212 Views
Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power - 20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM 1067 Views
Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series - 20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM 907 Views
Tell me then... - 18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM 973 Views
That's a fallacious question - 18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM 1052 Views
Are you saying... - 18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM 972 Views
That is a pathetic answer. - 19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM 924 Views
You're a pathetic ass - 19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM 947 Views
LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM* - 19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM 474 Views
Sad for you. *NM* - 19/01/2013 09:24:59 PM 503 Views
Oh, gosh, this could take a while. - 18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM 1011 Views
How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death? - 19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM 923 Views
Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped - 19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM 844 Views
Her kidnapping... - 19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM 863 Views
I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. ) - 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM 931 Views
No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped - 20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM 886 Views
Exactly - 20/01/2013 06:59:33 PM 1167 Views
Wow... - 19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM 994 Views
Culture is sometimes a reason, but never an excuse. - 19/01/2013 08:04:52 PM 982 Views
Just off color - 19/01/2013 10:03:58 PM 1080 Views
? - 19/01/2013 10:44:28 PM 965 Views

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