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Wow... Nargs Send a noteboard - 19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM

At least if you mean each and every one of Failes annoying idiocies. I would not have confused insults, provocation and lies with courtship or flirtation, for starters. I would have believed him when he said he was faithful and uninterested in a would-be competitor, rather than starting a knife fight with her in the middle of a recently conquered foreign capitol building. I would not constantly provoke him just for the satisfaction of getting my head bitten off, and resolutely insist on concealing all my deepest feelings and motivations from my supposed soul mate just so I could get mad at him for not reading my schizoid mind and shake my head fondly over the way he slowly loses his mind trying to figure out why I am always so angry, stressed, hurt, whatever.

This is her culture. Not just Saldean but Saldean Nobility.

If you mean the deaths, I would not have watched in passive silence as Perrin killed someone who had been the only thing keeping me alive for weeks.

She was torn by it and there was nothing she could have done. She was resigned to his fate.

However, she knew darned good and well Mat was at Merrilor (that WAS why they were originally headed there with the Horn, after all,) so suddenly assuming he was at Shayol Ghul just because she happened to see one of the hundreds of banners scattered between the Bands many regiments was just stupid.

She did not say she believe he was at Shayol Ghul nor did she imply it in my opinion. Where would you have gone in her shoes if you found yourself in the blight as they did with the horn? Time was nearly out. She needed to get there as fast as possible… she was willing to take any risk necessary to get to Mat in time. If she went south, she knew they would 1) not have gotten there in time 2) likely have died by the terrors of the blight. She couldn't just stay there. That was certainly death as well and no one knew where she was or that she was even alive. Her best option was to make it to someone at Shayol Ghul that could make her a gateway to take her back to Mat.

There is a reason, after all, they wound up captured by Trollocs and then forced to attempt escape from their midst:

She knew that even making it to a channelor at Shayul Ghul was a long shot. She happened upon a situation that would allow them to get back immediately and she made the right decision by going forward with the risky plan despite the small chance for success. All she knew is that the gateway would take her to a battle field where supplies were needed by trolloc armies. She had no idea which battle field that would be. She knew that there would be someone able to make a gateway for her no matter which front she made it to. Whatever was on the other side of the gateway could not be forseen or planned for. There were definite dangers in this but the risk had to be taken. If not for the darkfriend then they would have more likely succeeded. But guess what. She did succeed. It worked. They made it in time for Olver to sound the Horn.

Anyone visiting Shayol Ghul in the middle of Tarmon Gaidon, knowing the Dragon is making his own attack, has to know the chance of encountering Shadowspawn is pretty high.

Where else would she have gone? OMG

Taking a pony rather than a warhorse (or, far better, military pack animal) to a war zone was kind of stupid, too, though perhaps more justified for logistics reasons.

What?? They were trying to be inconspicuous. If you were in her shoes… you would have failed right off the bat obviously.

Still, if that was the only thing with which she had to make her high speed escape, it reflects very poor planning on her part.

Huh? HUH? HUUUUUUH????? Are you joking? … “OK” said Faile. “In case we hit a bubble of evil and the gateway we are traveling through actually takes us to the blight… we will need this this and that.” OMG… what the hell is wrong with you?

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Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now Joel - 14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM 3013 Views

Faile made Perrin less interesting Isaac - 14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM 1038 Views

She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. Joel - 14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM 1136 Views

I skipped those chapters during my re-read The Doctor - 14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM 1265 Views

I do not blame you, but that practically means skipping TPoD through KoD. Joel - 15/01/2013 06:16:17 AM 967 Views

Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. Zalvera - 15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM 993 Views

You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters. Tom - 15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM 993 Views

I think this is why I still enjoy Rand as a character so much IndigoAjahV2 - 15/01/2013 03:37:52 AM 949 Views

There were plenty of hard choices, but they might have been handled better. Joel - 15/01/2013 06:58:30 AM 1096 Views

Though I too have wished for them to make really hard choices... Cannoli - 15/01/2013 09:37:34 AM 1045 Views

But they DO make hard choices; they just face relatively few hard consequences. Joel - 15/01/2013 10:08:19 AM 896 Views

Rand certainly flirted with the moral Event Horizon a few times, so did some of the others Isaac - 15/01/2013 10:33:23 AM 1088 Views

Mostly it's because it's clear in RJ's eyes that doing something like the things you suggest is wron IndigoAjahV2 - 15/01/2013 12:41:03 PM 972 Views

You obviously have a much lower threshold than I do in defining "hard choices". *NM* Tom - 15/01/2013 03:47:52 PM 506 Views

We are introduced to them as they choose between abandoning home w/ a stranger v. staying to die Joel - 15/01/2013 04:46:02 PM 930 Views

Joel, I just said I disagreed with you. I didn't want to debate this series for the sake of debate. *NM* Tom - 15/01/2013 05:43:55 PM 485 Views

Also, how is choosing not to die a hard choice? Tom - 15/01/2013 05:46:46 PM 827 Views

Because they had only a strange witchs word they would die, and leaving w/ her was perilous, too. Joel - 15/01/2013 06:17:16 PM 839 Views

And a trolloc attack Tom - 16/01/2013 02:28:00 PM 841 Views

True, but there was considerable debate about who brought whom. Joel - 16/01/2013 04:41:35 PM 955 Views

Jordan said he put some of himself in all the ta'veren, but its clearly strongest with Perrin. Joel - 15/01/2013 06:27:10 AM 973 Views

I'm glad you have seen the Truth. Tom - 14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM 961 Views

It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose. Joel - 14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM 938 Views

I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly. Tom - 14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM 1029 Views

Works for me. Joel - 15/01/2013 06:13:16 AM 1969 Views

In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela darius_sedai - 14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM 905 Views

Bela has been there for Egwene all the time. fionwe1987 - 14/01/2013 10:16:22 PM 1123 Views

Egwene and Bela Aes_Gesserit - 15/01/2013 08:13:17 AM 878 Views

I thought Noal was riding Bela... *NM* Tom - 14/01/2013 10:47:56 PM 469 Views

I did, too, at first, but "horse"=/="pony." Joel - 15/01/2013 06:08:03 AM 849 Views

I think she fed her an apple once in TV or somewhere, too, but otherwise she ignored her. Joel - 15/01/2013 06:12:26 AM 1025 Views

Dramatic much? Bella lived a good life in TV and later in Salidar darius_sedai - 20/01/2013 12:54:15 AM 7715 Views

Actually, I never understood why people LOVE that horse so much. She is just a horse! *NM* aragornital - 15/01/2013 07:52:29 AM 531 Views

Pony. She is a pony. A loyal, goodnatured, overperforming and underappreciated pony. Joel - 15/01/2013 08:32:21 AM 988 Views

honestly a child and a horse and you think the kid should be butchered? darius_sedai - 20/01/2013 12:58:32 AM 969 Views

The whole series is based upon the love of Bela and Narg and her struggle to come to terms with his MightyYT - 16/01/2013 04:01:59 AM 775 Views

The real problem echooff - 15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM 906 Views

Faile will surely domineer someone into pulling Tams carts for him. Joel - 15/01/2013 03:04:35 PM 879 Views

The women in WoT are monsters Sidious - 15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM 1351 Views

I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic. Joel - 15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM 1158 Views

Oh...I think we know :-) *NM* echooff - 16/01/2013 04:31:18 PM 564 Views

I try to give them, or rather her, the benefit of a doubt. Joel - 16/01/2013 04:48:22 PM 832 Views

Re: Tuon Zalvera - 15/01/2013 03:33:34 PM 1093 Views

I had not noticed that before, but you are right. Joel - 15/01/2013 07:45:53 PM 871 Views

I agree completely... lilltempest - 15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM 1124 Views

Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power darius_sedai - 20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM 976 Views

Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series darius_sedai - 20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM 820 Views

Tell me then... Nargs - 18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM 888 Views

That's a fallacious question Tom - 18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM 971 Views

Are you saying... Nargs - 18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM 895 Views

That is a pathetic answer. Tom - 19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM 829 Views

You're a pathetic ass Nargs - 19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM 873 Views

LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM* Tom - 19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM 435 Views

Sad for you. *NM* Nargs - 19/01/2013 09:24:59 PM 459 Views

Oh, gosh, this could take a while. Joel - 18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM 921 Views

How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death? Zeratul - 19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM 840 Views

Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped Joel - 19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM 757 Views

Her kidnapping... Nargs - 19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM 782 Views

I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way.

) Joel - 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM 843 Views

No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped darius_sedai - 20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM 807 Views

Exactly Zeratul - 20/01/2013 06:59:33 PM 1076 Views

Wow... Nargs - 19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM 911 Views

Culture is sometimes a reason, but never an excuse. Joel - 19/01/2013 08:04:52 PM 893 Views

Just off color Nargs - 19/01/2013 10:03:58 PM 997 Views

? Joel - 19/01/2013 10:44:28 PM 888 Views

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<quote id="271009">
<quote id="270973">At least if you mean each and every one of Failes annoying idiocies.  I would not have confused insults, provocation and lies with courtship or flirtation, for starters. I would have believed him when he said he was faithful and uninterested in a would-be competitor, rather than starting a knife fight with her in the middle of a recently conquered foreign capitol building.  I would not constantly provoke him just for the satisfaction of getting my head bitten off, and resolutely insist on concealing all my deepest feelings and motivations from my supposed soul mate just so I could get mad at him for not reading my schizoid mind and shake my head fondly over the way he slowly loses his mind trying to figure out why I am always so angry, stressed, hurt, whatever.</quote>This is her culture.  Not just Saldean but Saldean Nobility.<quote>If you mean the deaths, I would not have watched in passive silence as Perrin killed someone who had been the only thing keeping me alive for weeks.</quote>She was torn by it and there was nothing she could have done.  She was resigned to his fate.<quote>However, she knew darned good and well Mat was at Merrilor (that WAS why they were originally headed there with the Horn, after all,) so suddenly assuming he was at Shayol Ghul just because she happened to see one of the hundreds of banners scattered between the Bands many regiments was just stupid.</quote>She did not say she believe he was at Shayol Ghul nor did she imply it in my opinion.  Where would you have gone in her shoes if you found yourself in the blight as they did with the horn?  Time was nearly out.  She needed to get there as fast as possible… she was willing to take any risk necessary to get to Mat in time.  If she went south, she knew they would 1)  not have gotten there in time 2) likely have died by the terrors of the blight.  She couldn't just stay there.  That was certainly death as well and no one knew where she was or that she was even alive.  Her best option was to make it to someone at Shayol Ghul that could make her a gateway to take her back to Mat.<quote>There is a reason, after all, they wound up captured by Trollocs and then forced to attempt escape from their midst:</quote>She knew that even making it to a channelor at Shayul Ghul was a long shot.  She happened upon a situation that would allow them to get back immediately and she made the right decision by going forward with the risky plan despite the small chance for success.  All she knew is that the gateway would take her to a battle field where supplies were needed by trolloc armies.  She had no idea which battle field that would be.  She knew that there would be someone able to make a gateway for her no matter which front she made it to.  Whatever was on the other side of the gateway could not be forseen or planned for.  There were definite dangers in this but the risk had to be taken.  If not for the darkfriend then they would have more likely succeeded.  But guess what.  She did succeed.  It worked.  They made it in time for Olver to sound the Horn.<quote>Anyone visiting Shayol Ghul in the middle of Tarmon Gaidon, knowing the Dragon is making his own attack, has to know the chance of encountering Shadowspawn is pretty high.</quote>Where else would she have gone?  OMG<quote>  Taking a pony rather than a warhorse (or, far better, military pack animal) to a war zone was kind of stupid, too, though perhaps more justified for logistics reasons.</quote>What?? They were trying to be inconspicuous.  If you were in her shoes… you would have failed right off the bat obviously.<quote>  Still, if that was the only thing with which she had to make her high speed escape, it reflects very poor planning on her part.</quote>Huh? HUH? HUUUUUUH????? Are you joking?  … “OK” said Faile. “In case we hit a bubble of evil and the gateway we are traveling through actually takes us to the blight… we will need this this and that.”   OMG… what the hell is wrong with you?
</quote>

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