RJ did such a horrendous job portraying relationships in this series. As a world builder he is a master, but regarding his characters, its just the pits.
Its painful to read about Egwene/Gawyn, Rand/Aviendha/Elayne, Tuon/Mat, Siuan/Gareth and most of all Perrin/Faile.
I just cannot believe that people would want to be in any of these relationships. The women consistently tell others how much they love these men but they consistently treat them like men they cannot stand. Egwene treats Gawyn like shit almost all the time... How dare you read my letter? I will not tolerate that in a husband etc. Elayne and Aviendha are extremely irritating women around Rand. Elayne berates him for the surprise visit and says that she "saw him yesterday". Aviendha dismisses everything he says and consistently thinks that her wisdom is far greater than even Lews Therin Telamon. Its so toxic it's difficult to read. Tuon treats Mat like she always has, an object. Its strange that some readers actually like Tuon... She's a monster and about as human as one of the Forsaken.
All of the female characters you listed above are monsters and inhuman. I would not have blamed Gawyn one bit if he had not returned to the WT and had let the bloodknives kill Egwene. I would not have blamed Rand one bit if he told Elayne and Aviendha that it was over, he wanted the bond released and, though he would love to see and help raise his children, he didn't really care if he saw their mother again. I loathe the scenes between Tuon and Mat from the beginning, but Tuon in aMoL was just horrible. At first, I wondered if Brandon had simply written the last scene between them poorly - much like the banter between Anakin and Obi-Wan in Episode II was supposed to be amusing (but, instead, made Obi-Wan seem like an annoying, naggy douche dictator who would turn the nicest of people to the Dark Side and made Anakin look like a big spineless whiner), I thought it was possible that Tuon might have been teasing Mat - but I don't think that's the case. Little Miss "the empress cannot love anyone" isn't teasing him at all, she completely means that she can kill him now because she's pregnant. And Mat, instead of telling her to go screw herself, comes off as a spineless dope with his comments about dice.
Its also mirrored by the fact that the men are idiots of the highest order. Perrin is retarded but it seems he was born that way, so Faile had very little to do there to dominate the situation. Rand just smiles at the continuous insults and says how beautiful his women are, like an adolescent. Mat can't be serious if he tries. Life is one big game.
The one that bothers me most is Rand. The man is now, basically, has more life experience than anyone in the freaking series, but he sees nothing wrong with the way Aviendha and Elayne treat him? Really??? WTF is wrong with him? Any man in his right mind would tell both of those wenches to stay away from him. In Rand's case, he could've done it gently, but he still should have done it.
The healthiest relationship is Nynaeve/Lan and Rand/Min. Nynaeve/Lan because she doesn't put up with his constant depressive moods and suicidal ideation, and because he keeps the bitch mode in check in her. Two people who show mutual respect. Min has a soul so that's already a winner, and she knows how to be kind, despite the fact that she only recently found a purpose in the series.
Nynaeve and Lan are the best couple in the series now that Lan has gotten past his psychoses about dying. I've seen people complaining that Lan was cold toward Moiraine, but it's completely understandable why he feels that way...and it's about bloody time! I agree that Min is the best choice out of Rand's women, but she really annoyed me in aMoL, for some reason.
The fact that RJ thought all "strong" women were supposed to be unbearable bitches who were incapable of showing the slightest amount of kindness to men, even the men they claim to love, is disturbing, to say the least. Someone must've stomped that poor man down until he began to like it and think all men appreciated such treatment, especially since his idea of a "strong" man seemed to be a man who took every ounce of abuse a woman doled out with no more than a few complaints about how "stubborn" the woman is.
The one thing I will give Faile is that she never wanted Perrin to be a wuss with her. She wanted him to stand up to her when he thought he should, and despite her stupidity in many situations, she wanted an equal relationship with Perrin. Perrin is just too passive by nature to do anything but bend over when she gets pushy, as opposed to Lan, who had no problems standing up to Nynaeve.
Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now
14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM
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Faile made Perrin less interesting
14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM
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She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it.
14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM
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I skipped those chapters during my re-read
14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM
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I do not blame you, but that practically means skipping TPoD through KoD.
15/01/2013 06:16:17 AM
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Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it.
15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM
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You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters.
15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM
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There were plenty of hard choices, but they might have been handled better.
15/01/2013 06:58:30 AM
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Though I too have wished for them to make really hard choices...
15/01/2013 09:37:34 AM
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But they DO make hard choices; they just face relatively few hard consequences.
15/01/2013 10:08:19 AM
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Rand certainly flirted with the moral Event Horizon a few times, so did some of the others
15/01/2013 10:33:23 AM
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Mostly it's because it's clear in RJ's eyes that doing something like the things you suggest is wron
15/01/2013 12:41:03 PM
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You obviously have a much lower threshold than I do in defining "hard choices". *NM*
15/01/2013 03:47:52 PM
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We are introduced to them as they choose between abandoning home w/ a stranger v. staying to die
15/01/2013 04:46:02 PM
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Joel, I just said I disagreed with you. I didn't want to debate this series for the sake of debate. *NM*
15/01/2013 05:43:55 PM
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Also, how is choosing not to die a hard choice?
15/01/2013 05:46:46 PM
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Because they had only a strange witchs word they would die, and leaving w/ her was perilous, too.
15/01/2013 06:17:16 PM
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Jordan said he put some of himself in all the ta'veren, but its clearly strongest with Perrin.
15/01/2013 06:27:10 AM
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I'm glad you have seen the Truth.
14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM
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It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose.
14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM
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I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly.
14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM
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In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela
14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM
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I think she fed her an apple once in TV or somewhere, too, but otherwise she ignored her.
15/01/2013 06:12:26 AM
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Dramatic much? Bella lived a good life in TV and later in Salidar
20/01/2013 12:54:15 AM
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Actually, I never understood why people LOVE that horse so much. She is just a horse! *NM*
15/01/2013 07:52:29 AM
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Pony. She is a pony. A loyal, goodnatured, overperforming and underappreciated pony.
15/01/2013 08:32:21 AM
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honestly a child and a horse and you think the kid should be butchered?
20/01/2013 12:58:32 AM
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The whole series is based upon the love of Bela and Narg and her struggle to come to terms with his
16/01/2013 04:01:59 AM
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The real problem
15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM
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Faile will surely domineer someone into pulling Tams carts for him.
15/01/2013 03:04:35 PM
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The women in WoT are monsters
15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM
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I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic.
15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM
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I agree completely...
15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM
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Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power
20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM
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Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series
20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM
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Tell me then...
18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM
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That's a fallacious question
18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM
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Are you saying...
18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM
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That is a pathetic answer.
19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM
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You're a pathetic ass
19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM
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LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM*
19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM
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Oh, gosh, this could take a while.
18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM
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How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death?
19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM
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Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped
19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM
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Her kidnapping...
19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM
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I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. )
19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM
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No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped
20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM
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Wow...
19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM
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