We are introduced to them as they choose between abandoning home w/ a stranger v. staying to die
Joel Send a noteboard - 15/01/2013 04:46:02 PM
"Believe and follow this weird witch who says staying will summon more attacks until our whole village is slaughtered, or test her word the hard way... hmm...."
Look at Mat; he repeatedly finds himself forced to travel into strongholds of people he has been told all his life are witches vs. letting the SL dagger consume him or abandoning a life-long friend to their tender mercies. In between, he (twice) crosses half the world to save their lives with people trying to kill him all the way when all he wants to do is hide, then chooses whether to believe the bizarre Finns assurance he will die if he does not follow Rand to the Waste and the dangerous Aiels hidden city. Sneaking out of Ebou Dar, he must decide whether to kidnap the invading armys ruler along the way or leave her bound and gagged for the gholam, then which of her generals to trust with her life.
Then choices ease: Avoid Finnland knowing it dooms Moiraine to certain death, or attempt rescue knowing it costs an eye—and likely just means he dies WITH her.
The problem is that he invariably "does the right thing" and it works out very well for him. Even when he loses his eye he has no real cause for regret or second guessing, no costly traumatic errors of judgement through which he must adapt and grow. As with most of the characters, his "learning experiences" teach him little, instead merely reinforcing his confidence in his own decision making.
They make plenty of tough choices, but never screw up any, so they never face any tough CONSEQUENCES. In Randland, correctly making a difficult traumatic decision prevents any major tough consequences. It thereby also prevents any prompt to reflect and reevaluate what should have been done differently. Even if Our Heroes did so anyway, the answer to that question is almost always "nothing." They deal with costs, occasionally even high ones, but never needless painful WASTES. The only real exception is Rand but, once again, much of Rands role consists of selecting the least awful of many intolerable choices.
Look at Mat; he repeatedly finds himself forced to travel into strongholds of people he has been told all his life are witches vs. letting the SL dagger consume him or abandoning a life-long friend to their tender mercies. In between, he (twice) crosses half the world to save their lives with people trying to kill him all the way when all he wants to do is hide, then chooses whether to believe the bizarre Finns assurance he will die if he does not follow Rand to the Waste and the dangerous Aiels hidden city. Sneaking out of Ebou Dar, he must decide whether to kidnap the invading armys ruler along the way or leave her bound and gagged for the gholam, then which of her generals to trust with her life.
Then choices ease: Avoid Finnland knowing it dooms Moiraine to certain death, or attempt rescue knowing it costs an eye—and likely just means he dies WITH her.
The problem is that he invariably "does the right thing" and it works out very well for him. Even when he loses his eye he has no real cause for regret or second guessing, no costly traumatic errors of judgement through which he must adapt and grow. As with most of the characters, his "learning experiences" teach him little, instead merely reinforcing his confidence in his own decision making.
They make plenty of tough choices, but never screw up any, so they never face any tough CONSEQUENCES. In Randland, correctly making a difficult traumatic decision prevents any major tough consequences. It thereby also prevents any prompt to reflect and reevaluate what should have been done differently. Even if Our Heroes did so anyway, the answer to that question is almost always "nothing." They deal with costs, occasionally even high ones, but never needless painful WASTES. The only real exception is Rand but, once again, much of Rands role consists of selecting the least awful of many intolerable choices.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now
- 14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM
3569 Views
Faile made Perrin less interesting
- 14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM
1492 Views
She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it.
- 14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM
1608 Views
I skipped those chapters during my re-read
- 14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM
1839 Views
I do not blame you, but that practically means skipping TPoD through KoD.
- 15/01/2013 06:16:17 AM
1390 Views
Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it.
- 15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM
1464 Views
You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters.
- 15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM
1422 Views
There were plenty of hard choices, but they might have been handled better.
- 15/01/2013 06:58:30 AM
1538 Views
Though I too have wished for them to make really hard choices...
- 15/01/2013 09:37:34 AM
1512 Views
But they DO make hard choices; they just face relatively few hard consequences.
- 15/01/2013 10:08:19 AM
1373 Views
Rand certainly flirted with the moral Event Horizon a few times, so did some of the others
- 15/01/2013 10:33:23 AM
1509 Views
Mostly it's because it's clear in RJ's eyes that doing something like the things you suggest is wron
- 15/01/2013 12:41:03 PM
1394 Views
You obviously have a much lower threshold than I do in defining "hard choices". *NM*
- 15/01/2013 03:47:52 PM
755 Views
We are introduced to them as they choose between abandoning home w/ a stranger v. staying to die
- 15/01/2013 04:46:02 PM
1399 Views
Joel, I just said I disagreed with you. I didn't want to debate this series for the sake of debate. *NM*
- 15/01/2013 05:43:55 PM
703 Views
Also, how is choosing not to die a hard choice?
- 15/01/2013 05:46:46 PM
1229 Views
Because they had only a strange witchs word they would die, and leaving w/ her was perilous, too.
- 15/01/2013 06:17:16 PM
1278 Views
Jordan said he put some of himself in all the ta'veren, but its clearly strongest with Perrin.
- 15/01/2013 06:27:10 AM
1458 Views
I'm glad you have seen the Truth.
- 14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM
1503 Views
It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose.
- 14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM
1370 Views
I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly.
- 14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM
1488 Views
In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela
- 14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM
1337 Views
I think she fed her an apple once in TV or somewhere, too, but otherwise she ignored her.
- 15/01/2013 06:12:26 AM
1497 Views
Dramatic much? Bella lived a good life in TV and later in Salidar
- 20/01/2013 12:54:15 AM
8178 Views
Actually, I never understood why people LOVE that horse so much. She is just a horse! *NM*
- 15/01/2013 07:52:29 AM
761 Views
Pony. She is a pony. A loyal, goodnatured, overperforming and underappreciated pony.
- 15/01/2013 08:32:21 AM
1422 Views
honestly a child and a horse and you think the kid should be butchered?
- 20/01/2013 12:58:32 AM
1476 Views
honestly a child and a horse and you think the kid should be butchered?
- 20/01/2013 12:58:32 AM
1476 Views
The whole series is based upon the love of Bela and Narg and her struggle to come to terms with his
- 16/01/2013 04:01:59 AM
1260 Views
The real problem
- 15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM
1424 Views
Faile will surely domineer someone into pulling Tams carts for him.
- 15/01/2013 03:04:35 PM
1347 Views
The women in WoT are monsters
- 15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM
1823 Views
I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic.
- 15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM
1613 Views
I agree completely...
- 15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM
1574 Views
Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power
- 20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM
1418 Views
Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series
- 20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM
1263 Views
Tell me then...
- 18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM
1321 Views
That's a fallacious question
- 18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM
1432 Views
Are you saying...
- 18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM
1315 Views
That is a pathetic answer.
- 19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM
1290 Views
You're a pathetic ass
- 19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM
1258 Views
LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM*
- 19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM
673 Views
Oh, gosh, this could take a while.
- 18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM
1369 Views
How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death?
- 19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM
1277 Views
Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped
- 19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM
1180 Views
Her kidnapping...
- 19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM
1241 Views
I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way.
)
- 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM
1293 Views
)
- 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM
1293 Views
No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped
- 20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM
1261 Views
Wow...
- 19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM
1340 Views
