We are introduced to them as they choose between abandoning home w/ a stranger v. staying to die
Joel Send a noteboard - 15/01/2013 04:46:02 PM
"Believe and follow this weird witch who says staying will summon more attacks until our whole village is slaughtered, or test her word the hard way... hmm...."
Look at Mat; he repeatedly finds himself forced to travel into strongholds of people he has been told all his life are witches vs. letting the SL dagger consume him or abandoning a life-long friend to their tender mercies. In between, he (twice) crosses half the world to save their lives with people trying to kill him all the way when all he wants to do is hide, then chooses whether to believe the bizarre Finns assurance he will die if he does not follow Rand to the Waste and the dangerous Aiels hidden city. Sneaking out of Ebou Dar, he must decide whether to kidnap the invading armys ruler along the way or leave her bound and gagged for the gholam, then which of her generals to trust with her life.
Then choices ease: Avoid Finnland knowing it dooms Moiraine to certain death, or attempt rescue knowing it costs an eye—and likely just means he dies WITH her.
The problem is that he invariably "does the right thing" and it works out very well for him. Even when he loses his eye he has no real cause for regret or second guessing, no costly traumatic errors of judgement through which he must adapt and grow. As with most of the characters, his "learning experiences" teach him little, instead merely reinforcing his confidence in his own decision making.
They make plenty of tough choices, but never screw up any, so they never face any tough CONSEQUENCES. In Randland, correctly making a difficult traumatic decision prevents any major tough consequences. It thereby also prevents any prompt to reflect and reevaluate what should have been done differently. Even if Our Heroes did so anyway, the answer to that question is almost always "nothing." They deal with costs, occasionally even high ones, but never needless painful WASTES. The only real exception is Rand but, once again, much of Rands role consists of selecting the least awful of many intolerable choices.
Look at Mat; he repeatedly finds himself forced to travel into strongholds of people he has been told all his life are witches vs. letting the SL dagger consume him or abandoning a life-long friend to their tender mercies. In between, he (twice) crosses half the world to save their lives with people trying to kill him all the way when all he wants to do is hide, then chooses whether to believe the bizarre Finns assurance he will die if he does not follow Rand to the Waste and the dangerous Aiels hidden city. Sneaking out of Ebou Dar, he must decide whether to kidnap the invading armys ruler along the way or leave her bound and gagged for the gholam, then which of her generals to trust with her life.
Then choices ease: Avoid Finnland knowing it dooms Moiraine to certain death, or attempt rescue knowing it costs an eye—and likely just means he dies WITH her.
The problem is that he invariably "does the right thing" and it works out very well for him. Even when he loses his eye he has no real cause for regret or second guessing, no costly traumatic errors of judgement through which he must adapt and grow. As with most of the characters, his "learning experiences" teach him little, instead merely reinforcing his confidence in his own decision making.
They make plenty of tough choices, but never screw up any, so they never face any tough CONSEQUENCES. In Randland, correctly making a difficult traumatic decision prevents any major tough consequences. It thereby also prevents any prompt to reflect and reevaluate what should have been done differently. Even if Our Heroes did so anyway, the answer to that question is almost always "nothing." They deal with costs, occasionally even high ones, but never needless painful WASTES. The only real exception is Rand but, once again, much of Rands role consists of selecting the least awful of many intolerable choices.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now
14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM
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Faile made Perrin less interesting
14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM
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She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it.
14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM
- 1234 Views
I skipped those chapters during my re-read
14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM
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I do not blame you, but that practically means skipping TPoD through KoD.
15/01/2013 06:16:17 AM
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Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it.
15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM
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You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters.
15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM
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There were plenty of hard choices, but they might have been handled better.
15/01/2013 06:58:30 AM
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Though I too have wished for them to make really hard choices...
15/01/2013 09:37:34 AM
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But they DO make hard choices; they just face relatively few hard consequences.
15/01/2013 10:08:19 AM
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Rand certainly flirted with the moral Event Horizon a few times, so did some of the others
15/01/2013 10:33:23 AM
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Mostly it's because it's clear in RJ's eyes that doing something like the things you suggest is wron
15/01/2013 12:41:03 PM
- 1076 Views
You obviously have a much lower threshold than I do in defining "hard choices". *NM*
15/01/2013 03:47:52 PM
- 548 Views
We are introduced to them as they choose between abandoning home w/ a stranger v. staying to die
15/01/2013 04:46:02 PM
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Joel, I just said I disagreed with you. I didn't want to debate this series for the sake of debate. *NM*
15/01/2013 05:43:55 PM
- 523 Views
Also, how is choosing not to die a hard choice?
15/01/2013 05:46:46 PM
- 924 Views
Because they had only a strange witchs word they would die, and leaving w/ her was perilous, too.
15/01/2013 06:17:16 PM
- 933 Views
Jordan said he put some of himself in all the ta'veren, but its clearly strongest with Perrin.
15/01/2013 06:27:10 AM
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I'm glad you have seen the Truth.
14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM
- 1064 Views
It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose.
14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM
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I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly.
14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM
- 1123 Views
In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela
14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM
- 995 Views
I think she fed her an apple once in TV or somewhere, too, but otherwise she ignored her.
15/01/2013 06:12:26 AM
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Dramatic much? Bella lived a good life in TV and later in Salidar
20/01/2013 12:54:15 AM
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Actually, I never understood why people LOVE that horse so much. She is just a horse! *NM*
15/01/2013 07:52:29 AM
- 568 Views
Pony. She is a pony. A loyal, goodnatured, overperforming and underappreciated pony.
15/01/2013 08:32:21 AM
- 1079 Views
honestly a child and a horse and you think the kid should be butchered?
20/01/2013 12:58:32 AM
- 1068 Views

The whole series is based upon the love of Bela and Narg and her struggle to come to terms with his
16/01/2013 04:01:59 AM
- 867 Views
The real problem
15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM
- 1035 Views
Faile will surely domineer someone into pulling Tams carts for him.
15/01/2013 03:04:35 PM
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The women in WoT are monsters
15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM
- 1476 Views
I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic.
15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM
- 1266 Views
I agree completely...
15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM
- 1220 Views
Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power
20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM
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Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series
20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM
- 915 Views
Tell me then...
18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM
- 981 Views
That's a fallacious question
18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM
- 1063 Views
Are you saying...
18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM
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That is a pathetic answer.
19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM
- 933 Views
You're a pathetic ass
19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM
- 956 Views
LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM*
19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM
- 480 Views
Oh, gosh, this could take a while.
18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM
- 1018 Views
How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death?
19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM
- 932 Views
Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped
19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM
- 853 Views
Her kidnapping...
19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM
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I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way.
)
19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM
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No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped
20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM
- 896 Views
Wow...
19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM
- 1005 Views