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I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic. Joel Send a noteboard - 15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM

RJ did such a horrendous job portraying relationships in this series. As a world builder he is a master, but regarding his characters, its just the pits.

Its painful to read about Egwene/Gawyn, Rand/Aviendha/Elayne, Tuon/Mat, Siuan/Gareth and most of all Perrin/Faile.

I just cannot believe that people would want to be in any of these relationships. The women consistently tell others how much they love these men but they consistently treat them like men they cannot stand. Egwene treats Gawyn like shit almost all the time... How dare you read my letter? I will not tolerate that in a husband etc. Elayne and Aviendha are extremely irritating women around Rand. Elayne berates him for the surprise visit and says that she "saw him yesterday". Aviendha dismisses everything he says and consistently thinks that her wisdom is far greater than even Lews Therin Telamon. Its so toxic it's difficult to read. Tuon treats Mat like she always has, an object. Its strange that some readers actually like Tuon... She's a monster and about as human as one of the Forsaken.

Its also mirrored by the fact that the men are idiots of the highest order. Perrin is retarded but it seems he was born that way, so Faile had very little to do there to dominate the situation. Rand just smiles at the continuous insults and says how beautiful his women are, like an adolescent. Mat can't be serious if he tries. Life is one big game.

The healthiest relationship is Nynaeve/Lan and Rand/Min. Nynaeve/Lan because she doesn't put up with his constant depressive moods and suicidal ideation, and because he keeps the bitch mode in check in her. Two people who show mutual respect. Min has a soul so that's already a winner, and she knows how to be kind, despite the fact that she only recently found a purpose in the series.

So yes, Faile is irritating and pathetic, but so are most of the women. Luckily its fiction...

Though watching most of those relationships DOES frequently make me wonder how Jordan and Harriet handled things.... (8
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Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now - 14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM 3031 Views
Faile made Perrin less interesting - 14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM 1054 Views
She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. - 14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM 1151 Views
I skipped those chapters during my re-read - 14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM 1281 Views
Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. - 15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM 1007 Views
You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters. - 15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM 1009 Views
I think this is why I still enjoy Rand as a character so much - 15/01/2013 03:37:52 AM 962 Views
I'm glad you have seen the Truth. - 14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM 974 Views
It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose. - 14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM 952 Views
I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly. - 14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM 1045 Views
Works for me. - 15/01/2013 06:13:16 AM 1982 Views
In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela - 14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM 916 Views
Bela has been there for Egwene all the time. - 14/01/2013 10:16:22 PM 1133 Views
Egwene and Bela - 15/01/2013 08:13:17 AM 888 Views
I thought Noal was riding Bela... *NM* - 14/01/2013 10:47:56 PM 473 Views
I did, too, at first, but "horse"=/="pony." - 15/01/2013 06:08:03 AM 864 Views
The real problem - 15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM 921 Views
The women in WoT are monsters - 15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM 1376 Views
I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic. - 15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM 1177 Views
Oh...I think we know :-) *NM* - 16/01/2013 04:31:18 PM 571 Views
I try to give them, or rather her, the benefit of a doubt. - 16/01/2013 04:48:22 PM 842 Views
Re: Tuon - 15/01/2013 03:33:34 PM 1112 Views
I had not noticed that before, but you are right. - 15/01/2013 07:45:53 PM 879 Views
I agree completely... - 15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM 1137 Views
Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power - 20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM 993 Views
Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series - 20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM 833 Views
Tell me then... - 18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM 901 Views
That's a fallacious question - 18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM 985 Views
Are you saying... - 18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM 904 Views
That is a pathetic answer. - 19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM 845 Views
You're a pathetic ass - 19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM 885 Views
LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM* - 19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM 442 Views
Sad for you. *NM* - 19/01/2013 09:24:59 PM 467 Views
Oh, gosh, this could take a while. - 18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM 935 Views
How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death? - 19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM 848 Views
Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped - 19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM 771 Views
Her kidnapping... - 19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM 796 Views
I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. ) - 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM 853 Views
No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped - 20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM 821 Views
Exactly - 20/01/2013 06:59:33 PM 1089 Views
Wow... - 19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM 926 Views
Culture is sometimes a reason, but never an excuse. - 19/01/2013 08:04:52 PM 905 Views
Just off color - 19/01/2013 10:03:58 PM 1009 Views
? - 19/01/2013 10:44:28 PM 902 Views

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