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It is something we just had to expect when Sanderson came in to finish the series. Joel Send a noteboard - 15/01/2013 11:24:06 AM
I believe RJ is on record that he had the final scene envisioned from the start, but it is in the nature of such things to jot down outlines without filling in all the details even when they are already decided. Once the small by pivotal details are decided the author is unlikely to forget them—but if he dies before he can record them in their entirety that gives his successors real problems. The same thing happened over and over throughout HoME, and that was assembled by Professor Tolkiens SON, not just an up-and-coming fan and author his wife and publisher tapped to finish his work.

Yep, there's no writer out there, or damn few and I'm sure RJ wasn't one of them, that doesn't rewrite scenes during edit, usually after having an editor and test person(s) read and give an opinion. I'm sure Sanderson tweaked tons of them, I'd just bet that was especially complete and BS didn't see the hole and didn't want to tweak it, or he'd have at least tried to hang some lanterns or arrange some alternatives. I don't think the ending meshed up, because Alivia plays virtually no noted role in the battle in spite of much being made of her being more powerful than Nyneave, the only person more powerful who has any screen time and lots of battle training. It's like some 'oops moment' occurred. I'd half suspect RJ meant to have Rand-Moridin wake up with Alivia there, her attack him and him reason with her and him make a getaway, with her rendezvousing to give him clothes, then her explaining to everyone that she killed Moridin in body-obliterating fashion and them accepting that someone with as much power and battle experience as Alivia could take down a weakened and confused Forsaken. Except the problem there is that they wouldn't have felt Rand channel because he couldn't channel anymore, and that for that matter Alivia wouldn't have sensed any 'weaves' he used and assumed he was using the True Power and was indeed Moridin... except worse, then Rand wouldn't have later been surprised he couldn't channel. So I feel like RJ had his final scene and just figured he'd tweak everything into place, and Sanderson just didn't manage to cover down on it.

Nice thing about BS though is he does do annotations and he's always upfront about 'screwed that one up' or 'didn't really make much sense', so maybe we'll get an answer inside the next year or so.

We will never get every scene exactly as an author originally envisioned, let alone as they would have finally envisioned, because everything pre-written in that detail (particularly for very descriptive writers like the Professor and Jordan) would have already been released. It IS more frustrating with pivotal/closing scenes like that one though, and I agree Alivias absence from both the Last Battle (which lasted for DAYS and was channeling intensive, after all) and Rands body swap is glaring.

It is also hard to imagine the Lights Eternal Champion abandoning his unborn children (wonder what LTT would think of that idea, since he slew the only children he ever had.) It was one thing when he seemed likely to die, but CHOOSING to leave them? All that crap about "I cannot inflict the pain of losing me on my lovers" suddenly turns to "later, hoes..."? No way.

Yeah, it totally doesn't fit, the scene felt akward and had me going 'huh?' a bit even before Cannoli drew the 'X' on it but it being the final scene, and on audio, I wasn't really plot hole gazing at the time. It's just a big no brainer, the scene is unrealistic. I don't feel it spoils things though, I'm just slapping on a mental patch that the girls told his close friends and family in private once they felt Rand had enough time to be safely away so they couldn't spoil his disappearance form the world accidentally or try to talk him out of it.

Yeah, wrongly or not, I took that to be implied. Maybe people are not taking it for granted because Jordan is known for describing everything at exhaustive (and exhausting) length, so anything he leaves unmentioned is assumed to not occur. On the other hand, he DID say he wanted to leave some loose ends, and obviously those would not be directly connected to the DO, so this is a prime candidate.
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This message last edited by Joel on 15/01/2013 at 11:27:03 AM
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So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move.... - 10/01/2013 04:40:55 AM 3177 Views
Because, to quote the series... - 10/01/2013 05:01:51 AM 1584 Views
I had hoped a lot more people would have died. - 30/01/2013 03:28:26 PM 975 Views
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double post thanks to daughter *NM* *NM* - 10/01/2013 06:16:01 AM 506 Views
I could be wrong, but... - 10/01/2013 06:16:02 AM 1295 Views
Except... - 10/01/2013 06:54:04 AM 1291 Views
Re: Except... - 10/01/2013 06:56:43 AM 1045 Views
If the World finds out he's still alive - 10/01/2013 08:05:18 AM 1215 Views
I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends. - 10/01/2013 10:56:58 AM 1201 Views
Re: I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends. - 10/01/2013 04:00:57 PM 1179 Views
Why Mat in particular? - 10/01/2013 04:07:19 PM 1041 Views
Re: Why Mat in particular? - 10/01/2013 04:20:37 PM 1154 Views
This is because I tend to assume the best in Rand - 10/01/2013 04:28:20 PM 983 Views
I don't fault Rand for any of it, at the moment.... - 10/01/2013 04:49:25 PM 1122 Views
Re: I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends. - 11/01/2013 02:34:16 AM 1047 Views
Re: I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends. - 13/01/2013 09:01:38 PM 1004 Views
I got the impression Egwene knew releasing the Source would instantly kill her. - 14/01/2013 11:42:03 AM 1144 Views
Re: I got the impression Egwene knew she was dead the moment she released the Source. - 14/01/2013 05:59:21 PM 985 Views
Even if she would just have been burned out there was no reason to think it permanent. - 14/01/2013 06:49:00 PM 948 Views
Where do people get that only Rand was right on the Seals? - 14/01/2013 10:03:19 PM 1126 Views
One point- the DO didn't break free, Rand dragged him out into the Pattern, specifically to kill him - 15/01/2013 03:03:43 AM 825 Views
Nope.. - 15/01/2013 03:19:02 AM 917 Views
Re: Nope.. - 15/01/2013 03:33:06 AM 1188 Views
The quote Shai'tan doesn't try and deny: - 15/01/2013 09:41:24 PM 942 Views
From Egwenes insistence they NEVER be broken. - 15/01/2013 07:26:36 AM 1105 Views
Agree 100%. Tam and Nynaeve deserve to know. - 10/01/2013 05:47:04 PM 1002 Views
Re: So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move.... - 10/01/2013 07:13:52 PM 1350 Views
You don't think Nakomi did it? - 10/01/2013 07:54:20 PM 1625 Views
Maybe - 10/01/2013 09:46:39 PM 1290 Views
Re: Maybe - 10/01/2013 11:08:32 PM 1129 Views
Nope.. an agent of the Wheel - 10/01/2013 11:53:54 PM 1226 Views
IDK, I thought the body switch was a side-effect of the link between them - 11/01/2013 02:38:33 AM 1088 Views
*NM* *NM* - 11/01/2013 06:51:10 PM 498 Views
I've a suspiscion that the Rand scene of Epilogue was probably drafted already - 12/01/2013 12:11:13 AM 1114 Views
That makes a great deal of sense. - 15/01/2013 07:45:55 AM 1067 Views
Re: That makes a great deal of sense. - 15/01/2013 09:37:47 AM 901 Views
It is something we just had to expect when Sanderson came in to finish the series. - 15/01/2013 11:24:06 AM 871 Views
More the three sisters - 20/01/2013 04:55:36 PM 832 Views

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