It is something we just had to expect when Sanderson came in to finish the series.
Joel Send a noteboard - 15/01/2013 11:24:06 AM
I believe RJ is on record that he had the final scene envisioned from the start, but it is in the nature of such things to jot down outlines without filling in all the details even when they are already decided. Once the small by pivotal details are decided the author is unlikely to forget them—but if he dies before he can record them in their entirety that gives his successors real problems. The same thing happened over and over throughout HoME, and that was assembled by Professor Tolkiens SON, not just an up-and-coming fan and author his wife and publisher tapped to finish his work.
Yep, there's no writer out there, or damn few and I'm sure RJ wasn't one of them, that doesn't rewrite scenes during edit, usually after having an editor and test person(s) read and give an opinion. I'm sure Sanderson tweaked tons of them, I'd just bet that was especially complete and BS didn't see the hole and didn't want to tweak it, or he'd have at least tried to hang some lanterns or arrange some alternatives. I don't think the ending meshed up, because Alivia plays virtually no noted role in the battle in spite of much being made of her being more powerful than Nyneave, the only person more powerful who has any screen time and lots of battle training. It's like some 'oops moment' occurred. I'd half suspect RJ meant to have Rand-Moridin wake up with Alivia there, her attack him and him reason with her and him make a getaway, with her rendezvousing to give him clothes, then her explaining to everyone that she killed Moridin in body-obliterating fashion and them accepting that someone with as much power and battle experience as Alivia could take down a weakened and confused Forsaken. Except the problem there is that they wouldn't have felt Rand channel because he couldn't channel anymore, and that for that matter Alivia wouldn't have sensed any 'weaves' he used and assumed he was using the True Power and was indeed Moridin... except worse, then Rand wouldn't have later been surprised he couldn't channel. So I feel like RJ had his final scene and just figured he'd tweak everything into place, and Sanderson just didn't manage to cover down on it.
Nice thing about BS though is he does do annotations and he's always upfront about 'screwed that one up' or 'didn't really make much sense', so maybe we'll get an answer inside the next year or so.
We will never get every scene exactly as an author originally envisioned, let alone as they would have finally envisioned, because everything pre-written in that detail (particularly for very descriptive writers like the Professor and Jordan) would have already been released. It IS more frustrating with pivotal/closing scenes like that one though, and I agree Alivias absence from both the Last Battle (which lasted for DAYS and was channeling intensive, after all) and Rands body swap is glaring.
It is also hard to imagine the Lights Eternal Champion abandoning his unborn children (wonder what LTT would think of that idea, since he slew the only children he ever had.) It was one thing when he seemed likely to die, but CHOOSING to leave them? All that crap about "I cannot inflict the pain of losing me on my lovers" suddenly turns to "later, hoes..."? No way.
Yeah, it totally doesn't fit, the scene felt akward and had me going 'huh?' a bit even before Cannoli drew the 'X' on it but it being the final scene, and on audio, I wasn't really plot hole gazing at the time. It's just a big no brainer, the scene is unrealistic. I don't feel it spoils things though, I'm just slapping on a mental patch that the girls told his close friends and family in private once they felt Rand had enough time to be safely away so they couldn't spoil his disappearance form the world accidentally or try to talk him out of it.
Yeah, wrongly or not, I took that to be implied. Maybe people are not taking it for granted because Jordan is known for describing everything at exhaustive (and exhausting) length, so anything he leaves unmentioned is assumed to not occur. On the other hand, he DID say he wanted to leave some loose ends, and obviously those would not be directly connected to the DO, so this is a prime candidate.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 15/01/2013 at 11:27:03 AM
So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move....
10/01/2013 04:40:55 AM
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Because, to quote the series...
10/01/2013 05:01:51 AM
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It's not so much about him not telling as cutting loved ones out of his life altogether *NM*
10/01/2013 05:47:14 AM
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I could be wrong, but...
10/01/2013 06:16:02 AM
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Except...
10/01/2013 06:54:04 AM
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Re: Except...
10/01/2013 06:56:43 AM
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That was my interpretation as well. I think it was an attempt at showing Rand's humility. *NM*
10/01/2013 08:17:52 AM
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If the World finds out he's still alive
10/01/2013 08:05:18 AM
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I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends.
10/01/2013 10:56:58 AM
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Re: I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends.
10/01/2013 04:00:57 PM
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Re: I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends.
11/01/2013 02:34:16 AM
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Re: I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends.
13/01/2013 09:01:38 PM
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I got the impression Egwene knew releasing the Source would instantly kill her.
14/01/2013 11:42:03 AM
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Re: I got the impression Egwene knew she was dead the moment she released the Source.
14/01/2013 05:59:21 PM
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Even if she would just have been burned out there was no reason to think it permanent.
14/01/2013 06:49:00 PM
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Where do people get that only Rand was right on the Seals?
14/01/2013 10:03:19 PM
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One point- the DO didn't break free, Rand dragged him out into the Pattern, specifically to kill him
15/01/2013 03:03:43 AM
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Nope..
15/01/2013 03:19:02 AM
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If that were the case Taim certainly would have smashed the seals right away
15/01/2013 08:54:14 AM
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Re: So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move....
10/01/2013 07:13:52 PM
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You don't think Nakomi did it?
10/01/2013 07:54:20 PM
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Maybe
10/01/2013 09:46:39 PM
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Re: Maybe
10/01/2013 11:08:32 PM
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I thought it was largely believed that Nakomi is an avatar of the Creator. *NM*
10/01/2013 11:19:43 PM
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It's one of the dominant theories, not sure it's the one favoured by the majority, but maybe *NM*
10/01/2013 11:55:46 PM
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IDK, I thought the body switch was a side-effect of the link between them
11/01/2013 02:38:33 AM
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*NM* *NM*
11/01/2013 06:51:10 PM
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Re: IDK, I thought the body switch was a side-effect of the link between them
11/01/2013 06:52:29 PM
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Re: So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move....
11/01/2013 12:01:09 AM
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Re: So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move....
11/01/2013 07:45:26 AM
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He realised that both he and LTT were not peace rulers several books ago
11/01/2013 12:25:37 PM
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Re: He realised that both he and LTT were not peace rulers several books ago
11/01/2013 10:39:33 PM
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I've a suspiscion that the Rand scene of Epilogue was probably drafted already
12/01/2013 12:11:13 AM
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Re: I've a suspiscion that the Rand scene of Epilogue was probably drafted already
12/01/2013 12:58:01 PM
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I think you need to re-read that last section
15/01/2013 09:19:41 AM
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I agree. Rand carries a man out of SG who he didn't bring there- logic dictates he is Forsaken *NM*
15/01/2013 12:44:18 PM
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That makes a great deal of sense.
15/01/2013 07:45:55 AM
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Re: That makes a great deal of sense.
15/01/2013 09:37:47 AM
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It is something we just had to expect when Sanderson came in to finish the series.
15/01/2013 11:24:06 AM
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Impossible to say, but I doubt he intended to keep his inner circle perpetually in the dark.
14/01/2013 11:25:47 AM
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Re: So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move....
25/01/2013 03:53:05 PM
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