Active Users:917 Time:23/12/2024 10:21:11 AM
But they DO make hard choices; they just face relatively few hard consequences. Joel Send a noteboard - 15/01/2013 10:08:19 AM
...I think the bit with them always making the honorable choice might have been necessary as part of the whole "desperate straits" that the Light has been in. A battle between the Light & the Shadow, with all the importance of moral choices hinted at through the series, is about doing good stuff, rather than tactically clever things. I think a major mistake of Jordan's was the failure to emphasize that aspect of the battle. There are hints, like the Pattern being made out of life-threads or the fate of Aridhol or Min's recurring vision of lights fighting darkness, but it is not explicitly detailed how the situation vis a vis the Shadow is the cumulative result of everyone's behavior. "Belief and order give strength" and too many moral slipups by the important characters would leave the situation too far beyond redeeming.

Jordan always talked about the issue of how the Light is at the very end of their rope with the Shadow way ahead on points, and depending on a miracle to actually have a chance at the Dark One, and that was the situation as I perceived it from the text, but IMO, it was not sufficiently stated for most readers. Part of having their backs to the wall is that they have zero margin of error. By certain contemporary standards of character development, that is a weakness in the story, since they have to go from win to win, but there are too many parallel situations in the series for me to believe that's an accident.

One such example (which I recall writing a post complaining about, on either this board or wotmania) is how none of the good guys have to dirty their hands with their predecessor's blood in order to achieve the power they do. Rand does not have to kill any recalcitrant rulers in order to take power over a particular nation, Elayne does not have to depose Morgase, Egwene does not have to depose Siuan (or for that matter, Elaida, who gets conveniently removed right at the moment the Ajah Heads are most open to considering Egwene's leadership qualifications), Perrin does not have to seize power in the Two Rivers, or fight his in-laws, or depose the long-standing ruler of Ghealdan, Tuon doesn't have to overthrow her sociopathic mother (recall in tGH, she is cited as amusing herself by playing an a'dam equivalent of Russian Roulette with her damane and male courtiers) and Galad does not have to remove the Fain-tainted Pedron Niall. All of those old rulers who were in place when the series started, who were tied into the inadequate status quo, and thus a "part of the problem" who needed to be excised for the protagonists to do their thing, were all conveniently removed by other circumstances, allowing the characters to all climb to the summits of power with relatively clean hands. For all that Rand whines about the dirt he has to do, it's really only to people who have it coming, and very little is morally offensive, just mildly unpleasant for Mr. Nice Guy.

While I might have bemoaned this issue on previous occasions, now I can't help but think it might have been necessary in order to preserve the moral certainty and clear consciences of the leadership of the Light for Tarmon Gaidon. For here on out, Lan, Perrin, Cadsuane, Elayne and Tuon might have to make a lot of unpleasant-but-necessary moral choices in their positions as rulers of the world, but they needed to go into the Last Battle with pure hearts and clear consciences.

Perhaps the Pattern explains that, too, though (or can be made to do so.) The Lights new leaders, who make many painful but usually quite beneficial choices, are only necessary because predecessors made so many BAD ones they were unfit to shepherd the world through TG. Several are not truly villainous, just fatally flawed; otherwise quite capable, well intentioned but tragically autocratic people whose arrogance, paranoia and callous contempt induces disastrous decisions.

Niall, Elaida and Siuan all fall into that category, imperious and secretive leaders who do the right thing for the wrong reasons until the Pattern destroys them for it. They are then replaced with better leaders who do the wrong thing for the right reasons so the Pattern makes their poor decisions turn out well despite them. It is not as if any of the kids who take over are any sharper, more skilled, better educated or more expienced than predecessors several times their age, weaned on the Aiel and Whitecloak Wars and the BAs Amyrlin assassination. They just have a far more sympathetic and flexible attitude than the Cold Warriors who came of age amid violence and betrayal in the generation preceding (and portending) theirs.
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Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now - 14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM 3031 Views
Faile made Perrin less interesting - 14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM 1054 Views
She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. - 14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM 1150 Views
I skipped those chapters during my re-read - 14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM 1281 Views
Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. - 15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM 1007 Views
You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters. - 15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM 1009 Views
I think this is why I still enjoy Rand as a character so much - 15/01/2013 03:37:52 AM 962 Views
There were plenty of hard choices, but they might have been handled better. - 15/01/2013 06:58:30 AM 1108 Views
Though I too have wished for them to make really hard choices... - 15/01/2013 09:37:34 AM 1059 Views
But they DO make hard choices; they just face relatively few hard consequences. - 15/01/2013 10:08:19 AM 909 Views
I'm glad you have seen the Truth. - 14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM 973 Views
It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose. - 14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM 952 Views
I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly. - 14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM 1044 Views
Works for me. - 15/01/2013 06:13:16 AM 1982 Views
In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela - 14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM 916 Views
Bela has been there for Egwene all the time. - 14/01/2013 10:16:22 PM 1132 Views
Egwene and Bela - 15/01/2013 08:13:17 AM 888 Views
I thought Noal was riding Bela... *NM* - 14/01/2013 10:47:56 PM 473 Views
I did, too, at first, but "horse"=/="pony." - 15/01/2013 06:08:03 AM 864 Views
The real problem - 15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM 920 Views
The women in WoT are monsters - 15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM 1375 Views
I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic. - 15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM 1176 Views
Oh...I think we know :-) *NM* - 16/01/2013 04:31:18 PM 571 Views
I try to give them, or rather her, the benefit of a doubt. - 16/01/2013 04:48:22 PM 841 Views
Re: Tuon - 15/01/2013 03:33:34 PM 1112 Views
I had not noticed that before, but you are right. - 15/01/2013 07:45:53 PM 878 Views
I agree completely... - 15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM 1137 Views
Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power - 20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM 993 Views
Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series - 20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM 833 Views
Tell me then... - 18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM 901 Views
That's a fallacious question - 18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM 984 Views
Are you saying... - 18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM 904 Views
That is a pathetic answer. - 19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM 844 Views
You're a pathetic ass - 19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM 885 Views
LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM* - 19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM 441 Views
Sad for you. *NM* - 19/01/2013 09:24:59 PM 467 Views
Oh, gosh, this could take a while. - 18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM 934 Views
How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death? - 19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM 848 Views
Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped - 19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM 771 Views
Her kidnapping... - 19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM 795 Views
I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. ) - 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM 853 Views
No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped - 20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM 821 Views
Exactly - 20/01/2013 06:59:33 PM 1089 Views
Wow... - 19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM 926 Views
Culture is sometimes a reason, but never an excuse. - 19/01/2013 08:04:52 PM 904 Views
Just off color - 19/01/2013 10:03:58 PM 1009 Views
? - 19/01/2013 10:44:28 PM 902 Views

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