If that were the case Taim certainly would have smashed the seals right away
Isaac Send a noteboard - 15/01/2013 08:54:14 AM
Whatever the word states or implies, if breaking the seals freed the DO then he'd have ordered it. Obviously there has to be a reason it benefited him to have the seals remain intact. I have no idea why, the storyline doesn't do a good job justifying that, but I'd say the best guess is the DO needed a certain degree of damage to reality before he could enter entirely, which probably gets done by balefire, death, etc and feared that if he had the seals broken before then it would incline Rand, or conceivably some other channelers, to show up and patch the bore.
I think the DO would gamble on the pattern, if the seals were broken prematurely, finding some way to supply the necessary knowledge - gateways, cuendillar, and whatever LTT specifically did - to someone who could access a reasonable amount of channelers and troops, like the white tower with their sangreal wand and 13 sisters, but even the wise ones, the Seanchan, etc would do and the Sharans apparently would do very well. So, I think from the DO's perspective breaking the seals before reality got thin enough would invite a high-probability of defeat for him, even if it turned out to be a Pyhrric Victory, tainting the female half or re-tainting the male once it was cleaned. In all probability Rand could have put a 3000+ year delay on their showdown as soon as Taim showed up and handed Rand the last one.
So I think timing-wise, the DO needs the seals broken when the pattern is screwed up enough for him to fully enter, and that Rand was basically right, he wanted to kill the DO and failing that to reseal him, which he already knew how to do and had sufficient forces to pull off, having LTT's memories. Without the protective layer of True Power the source would be tainted again, but a Breaking realistically wouldn't be as bad this time and they survived one before. In all likelihood the pattern wasn't weakened enough until the Last Battle started because it wasn't till then, after he'd talked to Egwene, that the Forsaken started throwing balefire non-stop and cracks were appearing everywhere. Those cracks probably were the 'critical mass' signal, so to speak.
To Rand, by then, his order of priorities was 1) kill DO, 2) True power re-seal, and 3) repatch. On 3 he would have been able to do it himself and retaint saidin, or keep his circle and risk tainting both for a better, arguably complete seal.
The alternative to this is to assume for no apparent reason that Taim sat on total victory once he had the seals back. It stands to reason that Taim had orders not to break the seals until he got word otherwise or something happened. Either that something never happened while he had them or it didn't happen before the attack on Shayol Ghul possibly prevented the DO from sending out a confirmation order.
I think the DO would gamble on the pattern, if the seals were broken prematurely, finding some way to supply the necessary knowledge - gateways, cuendillar, and whatever LTT specifically did - to someone who could access a reasonable amount of channelers and troops, like the white tower with their sangreal wand and 13 sisters, but even the wise ones, the Seanchan, etc would do and the Sharans apparently would do very well. So, I think from the DO's perspective breaking the seals before reality got thin enough would invite a high-probability of defeat for him, even if it turned out to be a Pyhrric Victory, tainting the female half or re-tainting the male once it was cleaned. In all probability Rand could have put a 3000+ year delay on their showdown as soon as Taim showed up and handed Rand the last one.
So I think timing-wise, the DO needs the seals broken when the pattern is screwed up enough for him to fully enter, and that Rand was basically right, he wanted to kill the DO and failing that to reseal him, which he already knew how to do and had sufficient forces to pull off, having LTT's memories. Without the protective layer of True Power the source would be tainted again, but a Breaking realistically wouldn't be as bad this time and they survived one before. In all likelihood the pattern wasn't weakened enough until the Last Battle started because it wasn't till then, after he'd talked to Egwene, that the Forsaken started throwing balefire non-stop and cracks were appearing everywhere. Those cracks probably were the 'critical mass' signal, so to speak.
To Rand, by then, his order of priorities was 1) kill DO, 2) True power re-seal, and 3) repatch. On 3 he would have been able to do it himself and retaint saidin, or keep his circle and risk tainting both for a better, arguably complete seal.
The alternative to this is to assume for no apparent reason that Taim sat on total victory once he had the seals back. It stands to reason that Taim had orders not to break the seals until he got word otherwise or something happened. Either that something never happened while he had them or it didn't happen before the attack on Shayol Ghul possibly prevented the DO from sending out a confirmation order.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move....
10/01/2013 04:40:55 AM
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Because, to quote the series...
10/01/2013 05:01:51 AM
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It's not so much about him not telling as cutting loved ones out of his life altogether *NM*
10/01/2013 05:47:14 AM
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I could be wrong, but...
10/01/2013 06:16:02 AM
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Except...
10/01/2013 06:54:04 AM
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Re: Except...
10/01/2013 06:56:43 AM
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That was my interpretation as well. I think it was an attempt at showing Rand's humility. *NM*
10/01/2013 08:17:52 AM
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If the World finds out he's still alive
10/01/2013 08:05:18 AM
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I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends.
10/01/2013 10:56:58 AM
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Re: I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends.
10/01/2013 04:00:57 PM
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Re: I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends.
11/01/2013 02:34:16 AM
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Re: I can agree with keeping it secret from just about everyone, BUT his father and closest friends.
13/01/2013 09:01:38 PM
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I got the impression Egwene knew releasing the Source would instantly kill her.
14/01/2013 11:42:03 AM
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Re: I got the impression Egwene knew she was dead the moment she released the Source.
14/01/2013 05:59:21 PM
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Even if she would just have been burned out there was no reason to think it permanent.
14/01/2013 06:49:00 PM
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Where do people get that only Rand was right on the Seals?
14/01/2013 10:03:19 PM
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One point- the DO didn't break free, Rand dragged him out into the Pattern, specifically to kill him
15/01/2013 03:03:43 AM
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Nope..
15/01/2013 03:19:02 AM
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If that were the case Taim certainly would have smashed the seals right away
15/01/2013 08:54:14 AM
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Re: So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move....
10/01/2013 07:13:52 PM
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You don't think Nakomi did it?
10/01/2013 07:54:20 PM
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Maybe
10/01/2013 09:46:39 PM
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Re: Maybe
10/01/2013 11:08:32 PM
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I thought it was largely believed that Nakomi is an avatar of the Creator. *NM*
10/01/2013 11:19:43 PM
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It's one of the dominant theories, not sure it's the one favoured by the majority, but maybe *NM*
10/01/2013 11:55:46 PM
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IDK, I thought the body switch was a side-effect of the link between them
11/01/2013 02:38:33 AM
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*NM* *NM*
11/01/2013 06:51:10 PM
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Re: IDK, I thought the body switch was a side-effect of the link between them
11/01/2013 06:52:29 PM
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Re: So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move....
11/01/2013 12:01:09 AM
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Re: So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move....
11/01/2013 07:45:26 AM
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He realised that both he and LTT were not peace rulers several books ago
11/01/2013 12:25:37 PM
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Re: He realised that both he and LTT were not peace rulers several books ago
11/01/2013 10:39:33 PM
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I've a suspiscion that the Rand scene of Epilogue was probably drafted already
12/01/2013 12:11:13 AM
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Re: I've a suspiscion that the Rand scene of Epilogue was probably drafted already
12/01/2013 12:58:01 PM
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I think you need to re-read that last section
15/01/2013 09:19:41 AM
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I agree. Rand carries a man out of SG who he didn't bring there- logic dictates he is Forsaken *NM*
15/01/2013 12:44:18 PM
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That makes a great deal of sense.
15/01/2013 07:45:55 AM
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Re: That makes a great deal of sense.
15/01/2013 09:37:47 AM
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It is something we just had to expect when Sanderson came in to finish the series.
15/01/2013 11:24:06 AM
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Impossible to say, but I doubt he intended to keep his inner circle perpetually in the dark.
14/01/2013 11:25:47 AM
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Re: So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move....
25/01/2013 03:53:05 PM
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