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From Egwenes insistence they NEVER be broken. Joel Send a noteboard - 15/01/2013 07:26:36 AM
I know Brandon totally screwed this up, but it isn't that unclear. BAscially, Rand was right the Seals had to be broken. Egwene's idea of doing something else while they were intact was wrong.

Rand was wrong about the timing, but Egwene was wrong about not doing it at all. She served a purpose in delaying him till the right moment, but was ultimately forced to admit he was right about WHAT to do, if not when.

But Rand was wrong on when to break the Seals. He wanted to do it the day after Merrilor. As we saw when Logain broke them, the DO broke free of his prison immediately. The only reason disaster was averted was that Rand had already woven a "hand" of the three Powers, and thus "all that he is can be seized" came true.

I agree with IA we did not see the DO break free. It is highly dubious he could ever break free at all without additional help; poking a hole in a concrete prison wall does not allow the captive to wiggle his finger in it until it is man-sized. The Bore was just that; if it were a simple matter of the DO breaking free the moment the Bore opened he would have done it in the AoL. Rand pulled him out to kill him, then stuffed him back in and restored the original wall when he realized "Love can't be coerced."

As we saw in Chapter 1, Egwene had the resources to figure out the time. "Wait for the Light" was not a last minute statement she made. She just understood its true meaning the moment before she died. She already had read the commentary from the Dreamer Amyrlin which said just that.

I had forgotten about that commentary, but since she did not comprehend it until her dying moment nothing really changes.

As for Egwene's role not being important... its funny how you guys are so insecure in your hate that you feel the need to ignore direct statements in her book and diminish what she did. Remember the dream she has, early in the book? There's a globe of light with cracks, and she's straining to hold it together? Remember the same globe of light coming up in her ToM dream of Rand hacking the ropes/Seals holding it together? The ToM Dream was a warning... Rand could not be the one to break them, since he was planning it at the wrong time. The second one was a Dream about exactly what she did: she patched up a new hole in the Pattern from which the DO would have unfettered access. It was a new Bore forming, and but for her figuring out how to plug it, Rand's efforts would have had no purpose. He wasn't in the Polov Heights to fight the DO from there too, and there would have been no Seals there to reduce the DO's strength anyway.

Was referring to the series (or ToM? :confused:) as "her book" a Freudian slip? :P You will have to cite where she patched a SECOND Bore, because I recall NO basis for that assertion. A second Bore would have been superfluous: Unopposed, the Forsaken would have broken the Seals and freed the DO through the first (interesting that Taim did not break them the moment he got them;) Rand and Co. could prevent that (or not) with two Bores as easily as with one. The first Bore required Lanfear AND one of the most accomplished AoL male channelers, and required the greatest channeler EVER, plus considerable research, construction and the Hundred Companions, to seal. Are you REALLY suggesting the DO spontaneously made his own second Bore and Egwene just as spontaneously sealed it singlehandedly?

I know it is galling that the Dragon Reborn actually DID reseal the Bore just like every word of the fourteen volume series for the past two decades said he would. However, inventing a second, unsubstantiated, Bore just so Egwene can be a second Dragon smacks of desperation.

Rand played the much bigger part, obviously. That's the whole point of the balance thing, by the way. The reason it was a man who was critical to removing the DO's influence is because for 3000 years, the male half of the Pattern has been forcefully repressed. But just like Latra Pose's actions allowed Lews Therins work to be more than a Phyrric Victory, Egwene did the same with Rand. Its clear that there's always a female opposition/alliance to balance the Dragon, and its in this "working together, yet against each other" manner that the Pattern corrects the imbalance, much as saidin and saidar interact to drive the Pattern itself.

The point of the balance thing was Moiraine and Nynaeve presence so he could access saidar, and Moridin so he could access the TP. Egwene is NOT Latra, Reborn or metaphorically (and, btw, I do not see how the latters actions made LTTs Strike anything but pyhrric; her Choedan Kal plan not only would not have worked, but would have tainted BOTH halves of the Source AND was impossible anyway since the Shadow overran the locations of all access keys.)

Egwenes role was exactly what she told Rand it was at the end: To remind him that, while his role is foremost and indispensable, EVERYONE has a unique lesser role, and he can no more deny them their destiny than they can deny him his.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 15/01/2013 at 07:30:33 AM
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So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move.... - 10/01/2013 04:40:55 AM 3195 Views
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One point- the DO didn't break free, Rand dragged him out into the Pattern, specifically to kill him - 15/01/2013 03:03:43 AM 836 Views
Nope.. - 15/01/2013 03:19:02 AM 933 Views
Re: Nope.. - 15/01/2013 03:33:06 AM 1197 Views
The quote Shai'tan doesn't try and deny: - 15/01/2013 09:41:24 PM 956 Views
From Egwenes insistence they NEVER be broken. - 15/01/2013 07:26:36 AM 1116 Views
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Re: So, is anyone else thinking that ending was a bit of a dick move.... - 10/01/2013 07:13:52 PM 1357 Views
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That makes a great deal of sense. - 15/01/2013 07:45:55 AM 1080 Views
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