There were plenty of hard choices, but they might have been handled better.
Joel Send a noteboard - 15/01/2013 06:58:30 AM
Where's the character development if they never get to make real, hard choices?
This was Wheel of Time in a nutshell. Of course, it was amazing how no major characters died in 13 books, and only three major characters died in the last one, and all in the same chapter (sorry, Bryne is very secondary despite his screen time later on). That was highly unrealistic, but the character development suffered severely because of the problem you highlighted.
For example, if Mats Aiel paramour had tried to seduce him to the Shadow instead of just immediately trying to kill him when Rand announced his attack plans. Killing her instead was definitely hard for Mat, but the only "choice" was do or die, and she, he and Jordan take it equally for granted that Mat would not even have been momentarily tempted to turn if she asked. The whole series would have been FAR more interesting with more extended PoVs of peoples gradual descent into Shadow for what were initially well-intended motives (e.g. Ingtar.) It should also be noted that Mat only escaped Ebou Dar by assaulting and binding his NEXT girlfriend (definitely a hard choice for those raised on Two Rivers chauvinism,) and spends the rest of the series self-flagellating over whether it got her killed.
The problem was not so much that characters were never forced to make hard choices to prove their mettle, or even that they were always spared the consequences of those choices. The problem was that the with rare exception the consequences were never all that bad, and frequently quite positive in the end, despite all the complaining about them at the time. We seldom see "the road more traveled," though one might argue those taking it make poor epic protagonists. We occasionally see it with other Two Rivers residents of the protagonists age viewing their return with jealousy and resentment, then awe; those who made the hard choice to leave with Moiraine (however much she influenced that choice) return with far greater abilities, experience and stature than their erstwhile peer group.
The main characters make many hard choices, but, with the notable exception of Rand (who frequently has NO good choices,) they always choose the "right" one, with almost uniformly beneficial consequences. Ironically, the character Jordan presents the most developmental dilemmas is not Rand, but Perrin; unfortunately, Perrins response is so miserable it robs most of the pleasure we could have had from witnessing it. He is so broody and angry he acts like HE is the one fated to go mad, break the world and die saving it. Mat responds far better, transforming from a shiftless simple lech to a sophisticated responsible husband and general. He still complains incessantly, but with Mat there is seldom any real heat to it; empty casual complaining about events largely of his own making is just how he passes the time.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now
14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM
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Faile made Perrin less interesting
14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM
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She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it.
14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM
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I skipped those chapters during my re-read
14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM
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I do not blame you, but that practically means skipping TPoD through KoD.
15/01/2013 06:16:17 AM
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Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it.
15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM
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You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters.
15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM
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There were plenty of hard choices, but they might have been handled better.
15/01/2013 06:58:30 AM
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Though I too have wished for them to make really hard choices...
15/01/2013 09:37:34 AM
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But they DO make hard choices; they just face relatively few hard consequences.
15/01/2013 10:08:19 AM
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Rand certainly flirted with the moral Event Horizon a few times, so did some of the others
15/01/2013 10:33:23 AM
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Mostly it's because it's clear in RJ's eyes that doing something like the things you suggest is wron
15/01/2013 12:41:03 PM
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You obviously have a much lower threshold than I do in defining "hard choices". *NM*
15/01/2013 03:47:52 PM
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We are introduced to them as they choose between abandoning home w/ a stranger v. staying to die
15/01/2013 04:46:02 PM
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Joel, I just said I disagreed with you. I didn't want to debate this series for the sake of debate. *NM*
15/01/2013 05:43:55 PM
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Also, how is choosing not to die a hard choice?
15/01/2013 05:46:46 PM
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Because they had only a strange witchs word they would die, and leaving w/ her was perilous, too.
15/01/2013 06:17:16 PM
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Jordan said he put some of himself in all the ta'veren, but its clearly strongest with Perrin.
15/01/2013 06:27:10 AM
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I'm glad you have seen the Truth.
14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM
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It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose.
14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM
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I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly.
14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM
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In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela
14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM
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I think she fed her an apple once in TV or somewhere, too, but otherwise she ignored her.
15/01/2013 06:12:26 AM
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Dramatic much? Bella lived a good life in TV and later in Salidar
20/01/2013 12:54:15 AM
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Actually, I never understood why people LOVE that horse so much. She is just a horse! *NM*
15/01/2013 07:52:29 AM
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Pony. She is a pony. A loyal, goodnatured, overperforming and underappreciated pony.
15/01/2013 08:32:21 AM
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honestly a child and a horse and you think the kid should be butchered?
20/01/2013 12:58:32 AM
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The whole series is based upon the love of Bela and Narg and her struggle to come to terms with his
16/01/2013 04:01:59 AM
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The real problem
15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM
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Faile will surely domineer someone into pulling Tams carts for him.
15/01/2013 03:04:35 PM
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The women in WoT are monsters
15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM
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I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic.
15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM
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I agree completely...
15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM
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Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power
20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM
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Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series
20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM
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Tell me then...
18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM
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That's a fallacious question
18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM
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Are you saying...
18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM
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That is a pathetic answer.
19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM
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You're a pathetic ass
19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM
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LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM*
19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM
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Oh, gosh, this could take a while.
18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM
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How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death?
19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM
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Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped
19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM
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Her kidnapping...
19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM
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I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. )
19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM
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No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped
20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM
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Wow...
19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM
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