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She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM
He started going downhill within a chapter or so of her showing up and didn't get interesting again to LoC, but after she gets captured by the Shaido he gets boring again with the 100% obsessive focus on her.

Since I am convinced he modeled Perrin and Faile on himself and Harriet, perhaps he paid penance enough. The entire basis of their attraction is rather dubious (or just hackneyed.) I can see how discovering his careful, compassionate and committed nature could create an attraction in HER, but about all she brings to the table is viciousness, deceitfulness, manipulativeness and bureaucratic skill. Perrin has a need for the last after she browbeats him into accepting nobility, but Perrin finds all her other most prominent qualities especially repulsive in everyone else. When we get right down to it, what is the difference between Faile and Berelain? The latter is more attractive and does not repeatedly try to murder perceived rivals?

Frankly, out of the 10 principal love interests of our taveren trio - Egwene, Elayne, Min, Aviendha, and Lanfear for Rand, Faile and Berelain for Perrin, Tuon, the Tylin and that Aiel chick for Mat - the only ones that I feel added any depth to the story were Min, Lanfear as Selene and her book 4 aspect, and Mat's Aiel gal.

Actually pretty much every romantic relationship developed in the series screwed up the characters involved and made them more irritating - except Thom/Morraine, which was almost entirely off screen, and Nyneave/Lan, maybe just because whenever Nyneave was being irritating about Lan she was near one of the other girls who was being more irritating. I had been wishing some of the enormous volume devoted to the Last Battles would have explored Demandred's relationship with his Sharan chick but I'm actually glad in retrospect it wasn't because it probably would have ruined it.

On the contrary, I feel Rands relationship with Min added the least depth to both characters. She gave him a confidante—but so did Elayne and Aviendha; the difference is they ALSO gave him a powerful ally who taught him a great deal about the diplomacy and statecraft of their respective cultures. All Min did was OCCASIONALLY, stumblingly, give him the insights into ancient texts that Moiraine once had. The difference there is that instead of taking bullets for him like she did, Min insisted on staying under foot so HE took bullets for HER when he should have been busy fighting the Shadow or Fain. Her talent was useful from time to time, but I am not sure that is worth losing a hand vital to his Blademaster skills or getting stabbed with a Shadar Logoth dagger.

I personally like the dynamic between Tuon and Mat; he does a great deal to humanize her, she keeps his mind on his business, and they provide each other much needed humility. Lanfear and Berelain I do not count (especially since it is doubtful any real love ever existed between either party in the first case, even when LTT lived; Rand even says as much.) Tylin was important to give Mat perspective on what it feels like to be chased as a sextoy rather than wooed as a partner. His attitude toward casual relationships changes noticeably after that; he does not instantly become a "marrying man," but he is far less indifferent about lecherously "loving" (i.e. "dallying with") and leaving women once the shoe has been on the other foot.

Faile, however, adds nothing but idiocy to Perrin; only in the final pages of AMoL does it finally penetrate his thick skull that sacrificing the Last Battle for her would be pointless even if right, since losing the Last Battle means losing her, too. She does not develop him, she UNdevelops a character whose defining characteristic is quiet careful deliberation. She does not even teach him the final valuable lesson of knowing when to let his instincts rule him: Master Luhan does. She does for him what Min does for Rand, except by the end of the series Min has learned the error of her ways; all Faile has learned is that she does not have to kill every attractive woman she sees to prevent Perrin cheating on her.

She is also more responsible than any other one thing for how the pacing completely DIES in books 8-11. We spent a third of the freaking series listening to Perrin channel an angst-ridden teen while she played at being a captive Machiavelli. I am sure it was all very touching for Harriet (who does not love knowing they are the model for the most universally despised character in their spouses two decade epic? ;)) Yet those 2000 pages of unceasing drudgery did more to turn off a once large and rabid fanbase than all the baths and embroidery in the Westlands.
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This message last edited by Joel on 14/01/2013 at 02:45:22 PM
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Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now - 14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM 3031 Views
Faile made Perrin less interesting - 14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM 1054 Views
She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. - 14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM 1151 Views
I skipped those chapters during my re-read - 14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM 1281 Views
Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. - 15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM 1007 Views
You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters. - 15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM 1009 Views
I think this is why I still enjoy Rand as a character so much - 15/01/2013 03:37:52 AM 962 Views
I'm glad you have seen the Truth. - 14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM 973 Views
It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose. - 14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM 952 Views
I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly. - 14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM 1045 Views
Works for me. - 15/01/2013 06:13:16 AM 1982 Views
In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela - 14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM 916 Views
Bela has been there for Egwene all the time. - 14/01/2013 10:16:22 PM 1133 Views
Egwene and Bela - 15/01/2013 08:13:17 AM 888 Views
I thought Noal was riding Bela... *NM* - 14/01/2013 10:47:56 PM 473 Views
I did, too, at first, but "horse"=/="pony." - 15/01/2013 06:08:03 AM 864 Views
The real problem - 15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM 921 Views
The women in WoT are monsters - 15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM 1376 Views
I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic. - 15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM 1176 Views
Oh...I think we know :-) *NM* - 16/01/2013 04:31:18 PM 571 Views
I try to give them, or rather her, the benefit of a doubt. - 16/01/2013 04:48:22 PM 841 Views
Re: Tuon - 15/01/2013 03:33:34 PM 1112 Views
I had not noticed that before, but you are right. - 15/01/2013 07:45:53 PM 878 Views
I agree completely... - 15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM 1137 Views
Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power - 20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM 993 Views
Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series - 20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM 833 Views
Tell me then... - 18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM 901 Views
That's a fallacious question - 18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM 985 Views
Are you saying... - 18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM 904 Views
That is a pathetic answer. - 19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM 845 Views
You're a pathetic ass - 19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM 885 Views
LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM* - 19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM 441 Views
Sad for you. *NM* - 19/01/2013 09:24:59 PM 467 Views
Oh, gosh, this could take a while. - 18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM 935 Views
How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death? - 19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM 848 Views
Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped - 19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM 771 Views
Her kidnapping... - 19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM 796 Views
I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. ) - 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM 853 Views
No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped - 20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM 821 Views
Exactly - 20/01/2013 06:59:33 PM 1089 Views
Wow... - 19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM 926 Views
Culture is sometimes a reason, but never an excuse. - 19/01/2013 08:04:52 PM 904 Views
Just off color - 19/01/2013 10:03:58 PM 1009 Views
? - 19/01/2013 10:44:28 PM 902 Views

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