Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 28/12/2012 08:44:51 PM

there is very little evidence to show which of the men are stronger than which and zero showing to what degree ... given how competitive life was among the Chosen during the WOP I find it incredibly unlikely people significantly weaker than the top strength levels coupled with obviously less skill (Asmodean and Balthamel were nowhere close to the skill level of Lanfear, Graendal, Ishamael or Demandred) would have survived as one of the top level Chosen. The 13 we started with were on the short list of top generals, something they would not have been able to achieve with both a lack of skill and very close to the maximum level of strength.
Only thing we can go on is that in a very short window of time Rand is known to be "slightly" stronger than Rahvin, Sammael, Be'lal, Asmodean and Taim ... he even says in all of these instances (except Be'lal) that these men "were holding nearly as much saidin as he could" which indicates he was a bit stronger than each of them as he faced off with them and this all takes place in about a 6 month window.
We will never agree on the degree of what "nearly as much" means. And I'm okay with that ... you like the Forsaken to be massively stronger than anyone ... I prefer them to be somewhat stronger, but massively more skilled. It's the way I read the series and in my mind that makes it much more compelling than what amounts to a bunch of thugs who got to the top based completely on being lucky enough to be born with incredible OP strength. The top 6 in my head aren't even necessarily the Strongest in the OP they were the ones with the most skill. Strength in my head was a razors breadth difference between them. Skill on the other hand has much wider margins.
How ever you read the series and this topic it's obvious that Rand's strength accumulation is MUCH faster than anyone else we've ever seen. Within 1 year of first Channeling he had gained the vast majority of his strength.
Only thing we can go on is that in a very short window of time Rand is known to be "slightly" stronger than Rahvin, Sammael, Be'lal, Asmodean and Taim ... he even says in all of these instances (except Be'lal) that these men "were holding nearly as much saidin as he could" which indicates he was a bit stronger than each of them as he faced off with them and this all takes place in about a 6 month window.
We will never agree on the degree of what "nearly as much" means. And I'm okay with that ... you like the Forsaken to be massively stronger than anyone ... I prefer them to be somewhat stronger, but massively more skilled. It's the way I read the series and in my mind that makes it much more compelling than what amounts to a bunch of thugs who got to the top based completely on being lucky enough to be born with incredible OP strength. The top 6 in my head aren't even necessarily the Strongest in the OP they were the ones with the most skill. Strength in my head was a razors breadth difference between them. Skill on the other hand has much wider margins.
How ever you read the series and this topic it's obvious that Rand's strength accumulation is MUCH faster than anyone else we've ever seen. Within 1 year of first Channeling he had gained the vast majority of his strength.
I agree with this. I think the reason Lanfear was so confident that no woman was stronger than her because she had eliminated those who were, on both the Light and Dark sides, and knowing how impossible it would be to find another woman in that strength range, she figured she was the strongest. She is so jealous that I can see her targeting those people.
Also, Aginor is said to have matched Lews Therin stroke for stroke; no other Forsaken, even Ishamael, was said to have done this with the One Power. I would say that Ishamael and Demandred might have been weaker than Aginor, but their cunning and more combat-worthy skills compensated for any minimal strength deficiency.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
I really hate to bring up strength in the OP, but thankfully it doesn't regard Egwene or any women.
04/12/2012 06:01:45 AM
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My thoughts
04/12/2012 07:15:44 AM
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90 is REALLY high
04/12/2012 07:25:15 AM
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Couple of things ... **reminder that this is a lot of speculation**
04/12/2012 04:29:50 PM
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Narishma is definitely stronger, you're right.
07/12/2012 03:00:53 AM
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He was stronger than Aginor in order to channel the power of the Eye
07/12/2012 03:00:10 PM
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No I don't think so
07/12/2012 04:13:48 PM
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I'd say more than 80
07/12/2012 07:07:32 PM
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81 then
07/12/2012 08:11:34 PM
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and that's just YOUR theory Sidius
07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM
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Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius
28/12/2012 08:44:51 PM
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Aginors defeat could be a result of multiple factors. So can Ishmaels
07/12/2012 01:24:18 PM
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Regardless, Rand was clearly in the same strength category when Aginor and he faced off
07/12/2012 03:03:04 PM
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I disagree.
07/12/2012 06:55:43 PM
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Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world
07/12/2012 07:12:44 PM
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Re: Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world
07/12/2012 07:51:37 PM
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he faced Asmodean strength for strength before Rahvin
07/12/2012 09:23:42 PM
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Just to be a bitch
07/12/2012 10:17:11 PM
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He didn't face Asmodean he chased him and wrestled him over a sa'angreal.
10/12/2012 11:16:18 PM
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Asmo hurled plenty of stuff at Rand during the "Chase" it wasnt all that much different
11/12/2012 03:16:36 AM
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I disagree with your plenty cause no one was TRYING to crush him. *NM*
11/12/2012 07:13:12 PM
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as I said before ... your interpretations are yours to have ... as are mine. *NM*
11/12/2012 09:16:36 PM
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think youre misjudgjng the benefits of the link. they dont have to add up to 90.
07/12/2012 12:34:59 PM
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There is also no why to tell if Flinn hit Demandred with all the strength available to him either
07/12/2012 03:05:38 PM
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the "circle" was stronger but the individuals weren't *NM*
07/12/2012 06:58:38 PM
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that's what I just said *NM*
07/12/2012 07:23:34 PM
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that was not clear *NM*
07/12/2012 07:43:54 PM
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*shrug*
07/12/2012 09:25:00 PM
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Re: *shrug*
10/12/2012 11:27:42 PM
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If I had said the individuals in the circle added to Dmandreds strength perhaps
11/12/2012 03:28:23 AM
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in the context of this discussion you did not distinguish between the effective strength and
11/12/2012 07:10:48 PM
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whatever ... didn't think it was necessary ... and with that I'm done
11/12/2012 09:16:03 PM
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About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM
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Perhaps
08/12/2012 01:01:21 AM
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Re: Perhaps
08/12/2012 02:06:39 AM
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Like I said ... Could be
08/12/2012 02:33:43 AM
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I disagree...
08/12/2012 04:53:09 AM
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Re: I disagree...
08/12/2012 05:20:08 AM
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I disagree again!
08/12/2012 05:49:15 AM
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Probably
08/12/2012 02:46:15 PM
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Always thought the forsaken didn't really know much about Rand
08/12/2012 02:38:08 AM
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And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed
08/12/2012 02:43:15 AM
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Re: And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed
08/12/2012 05:34:54 AM
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Who can say. Graendal wraps them so deep in compulsion that she can dig
08/12/2012 05:42:39 AM
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I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series...
08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM
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Re: I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series...
08/12/2012 02:54:08 PM
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Re: About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
11/12/2012 11:36:51 PM
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