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Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 28/12/2012 08:44:51 PM
there is very little evidence to show which of the men are stronger than which and zero showing to what degree ... given how competitive life was among the Chosen during the WOP I find it incredibly unlikely people significantly weaker than the top strength levels coupled with obviously less skill (Asmodean and Balthamel were nowhere close to the skill level of Lanfear, Graendal, Ishamael or Demandred) would have survived as one of the top level Chosen. The 13 we started with were on the short list of top generals, something they would not have been able to achieve with both a lack of skill and very close to the maximum level of strength.

Only thing we can go on is that in a very short window of time Rand is known to be "slightly" stronger than Rahvin, Sammael, Be'lal, Asmodean and Taim ... he even says in all of these instances (except Be'lal) that these men "were holding nearly as much saidin as he could" which indicates he was a bit stronger than each of them as he faced off with them and this all takes place in about a 6 month window.

We will never agree on the degree of what "nearly as much" means. And I'm okay with that ... you like the Forsaken to be massively stronger than anyone ... I prefer them to be somewhat stronger, but massively more skilled. It's the way I read the series and in my mind that makes it much more compelling than what amounts to a bunch of thugs who got to the top based completely on being lucky enough to be born with incredible OP strength. The top 6 in my head aren't even necessarily the Strongest in the OP they were the ones with the most skill. Strength in my head was a razors breadth difference between them. Skill on the other hand has much wider margins.

How ever you read the series and this topic it's obvious that Rand's strength accumulation is MUCH faster than anyone else we've ever seen. Within 1 year of first Channeling he had gained the vast majority of his strength.


I agree with this. I think the reason Lanfear was so confident that no woman was stronger than her because she had eliminated those who were, on both the Light and Dark sides, and knowing how impossible it would be to find another woman in that strength range, she figured she was the strongest. She is so jealous that I can see her targeting those people.

Also, Aginor is said to have matched Lews Therin stroke for stroke; no other Forsaken, even Ishamael, was said to have done this with the One Power. I would say that Ishamael and Demandred might have been weaker than Aginor, but their cunning and more combat-worthy skills compensated for any minimal strength deficiency.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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I really hate to bring up strength in the OP, but thankfully it doesn't regard Egwene or any women. - 04/12/2012 06:01:45 AM 1780 Views
My thoughts - 04/12/2012 07:15:44 AM 1193 Views
90 is REALLY high - 04/12/2012 07:25:15 AM 1152 Views
Couple of things ... **reminder that this is a lot of speculation** - 04/12/2012 04:29:50 PM 1106 Views
Narishma is definitely stronger, you're right. - 07/12/2012 03:00:53 AM 1041 Views
He was stronger than Aginor in order to channel the power of the Eye - 07/12/2012 03:00:10 PM 1017 Views
No I don't think so - 07/12/2012 04:13:48 PM 915 Views
I'd say more than 80 - 07/12/2012 07:07:32 PM 876 Views
81 then - 07/12/2012 08:11:34 PM 799 Views
and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM 887 Views
Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 07/12/2012 10:14:53 PM 909 Views
there were more like MILLIONS of Forsaken during these times - 07/12/2012 10:30:34 PM 883 Views
Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 28/12/2012 08:44:51 PM 698 Views
Aginors defeat could be a result of multiple factors. So can Ishmaels - 07/12/2012 01:24:18 PM 942 Views
Regardless, Rand was clearly in the same strength category when Aginor and he faced off - 07/12/2012 03:03:04 PM 894 Views
I disagree. - 07/12/2012 06:55:43 PM 817 Views
Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world - 07/12/2012 07:12:44 PM 843 Views
Re: Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world - 07/12/2012 07:51:37 PM 836 Views
he faced Asmodean strength for strength before Rahvin - 07/12/2012 09:23:42 PM 920 Views
Just to be a bitch - 07/12/2012 10:17:11 PM 770 Views
you don't actually have to tell us all you are a bitch - 07/12/2012 10:36:25 PM 946 Views
*NM* - 08/12/2012 06:22:49 AM 764 Views
think youre misjudgjng the benefits of the link. they dont have to add up to 90. - 07/12/2012 12:34:59 PM 871 Views
There is also no why to tell if Flinn hit Demandred with all the strength available to him either - 07/12/2012 03:05:38 PM 873 Views
the "circle" was stronger but the individuals weren't *NM* - 07/12/2012 06:58:38 PM 543 Views
that's what I just said *NM* - 07/12/2012 07:23:34 PM 472 Views
that was not clear *NM* - 07/12/2012 07:43:54 PM 568 Views
*shrug* - 07/12/2012 09:25:00 PM 773 Views
Re: *shrug* - 10/12/2012 11:27:42 PM 870 Views
If I had said the individuals in the circle added to Dmandreds strength perhaps - 11/12/2012 03:28:23 AM 910 Views
in the context of this discussion you did not distinguish between the effective strength and - 11/12/2012 07:10:48 PM 821 Views
whatever ... didn't think it was necessary ... and with that I'm done - 11/12/2012 09:16:03 PM 802 Views
- 17/12/2012 11:22:55 PM 1083 Views
About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: - 08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM 1019 Views
Perhaps - 08/12/2012 01:01:21 AM 852 Views
Re: Perhaps - 08/12/2012 02:06:39 AM 908 Views
Like I said ... Could be - 08/12/2012 02:33:43 AM 895 Views
I disagree... - 08/12/2012 04:53:09 AM 812 Views
Re: I disagree... - 08/12/2012 05:20:08 AM 763 Views
I disagree again! - 08/12/2012 05:49:15 AM 851 Views
Probably - 08/12/2012 02:46:15 PM 879 Views
Re: Probably - 09/12/2012 07:51:59 PM 875 Views
Not really - 09/12/2012 10:13:07 PM 803 Views
Re: Not really - 10/12/2012 01:05:54 AM 818 Views
Re: Not really - 13/12/2012 03:58:48 PM 896 Views
I don't think the Forsaken are good examples - 08/12/2012 06:18:45 AM 880 Views
We're essentially saying the same thing now - 08/12/2012 02:37:17 PM 802 Views
Re: I don't think the Forsaken are good examples - 28/12/2012 08:08:21 PM 767 Views
Always thought the forsaken didn't really know much about Rand - 08/12/2012 02:38:08 AM 902 Views
And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed - 08/12/2012 02:43:15 AM 842 Views
Re: And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed - 08/12/2012 05:34:54 AM 898 Views
Who can say. Graendal wraps them so deep in compulsion that she can dig - 08/12/2012 05:42:39 AM 876 Views
Oops, double post. *NM* - 08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM 549 Views
Re: About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: - 11/12/2012 11:36:51 PM 855 Views
Re: Rand v Aginor - 16/12/2012 01:46:08 PM 831 Views
Not a bad theory and I've read it before - 16/12/2012 07:42:31 PM 785 Views

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