You can't really substantiate that opinion. There are several quotes stating that Ishamael equalled Lews Therin in power.
But none of them is verbatim, all of them are interpretations from AOL texts by third agers, and we cban't be sure the texts themselves truly referred to his OP raw strength and not to the power he wielded in the Shadow being comparable to LTT's in the Light. The other problem is that we know this comes from AS interpretation of AOL texts (or worse, Breaking and post-Breaking ones), and today's AS judge "power" on raw saidar potential, whereas all the signs in the series suggest AOLers also include skills when they speak of an Aes Sedai's power (they differentiate between strength and global power), that raw strength is only a factor in their global description (which only makes sense in a world full of angreal...). Mierin was as strong as any woman, yet she was only an Aes Sedai of middling power who never achieved anything worthy of a third name honorific. Her OP skills musn't be so amazing for someone as strong, she was a good OP scientist, good enough to enter the Collam Daan, but by the standards of her Age not remarkable, not enough to get any public attention for her skills. Just that might suggest she's not as powerful as LTT, that her mastery over saidar isn't enough to match his strength in saidin by higher efficiency.
The problem with Ishamael being so strong in saidin is that if he is, combined with his status as Nae'blis, it's extremely hard to understand why Demandred doesn't hate him just as much as he hates LTT. He envies Moridin's status, but nothing else. Demandred acts toward Moridin as if he is the stronger of the two.
Moridin is clearly strong, but I don't think we can be in any way certain of his exact strength, not even how he compares in raw strength to Demandred (who was second only to LTT) or Aginor (who had rare amazing skills in some areas that could very well taint his description as "powerful", unless we have a direct quote Dashiva matches Rand or almost in raw strength).
I've been saying this for ten years. Great to see you saying it so unexpectedly.
Totally agree.
The BWB says straight out that Ishamael was the strongest of the Chosen, and it is WoT canon (up to when it was written). I understand Dominic's points and think they're all valid but you've merely been on a mission for a decade to prove that Demandred is the strongest of the Chosen, but that can't be backed up anywhere. He may be the strongest and most skilled overall, but in terms of raw power, Ishamael is stronger.
There is not a shred of proof that suggests that Ishamael might not have been the strongest of the Forsaken, and plenty of quotes stating that he was, albeit 'legendary knowledge' or hearsay. It may be wrong, but you can't make a counter theory with zero evidence either. Aginor and Demandred were second in power - the BWB says so.
Unless it's refuted by Brandon, it will never be more than a conspiracy theory that Ishamael was not the strongest. IMO RJ made it obvious who the strongest of all the Forsaken was, and that was Ishamael.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
How many standard deviations is Lanfear
15/11/2012 06:04:39 PM
- 2216 Views
Hmm...
15/11/2012 07:25:34 PM
- 1345 Views
see we CAN agree on stuff
15/11/2012 07:56:12 PM
- 1189 Views
18/11/2012 08:37:22 PM
- 1057 Views


Re:
18/11/2012 11:07:17 PM
- 1277 Views

Re:
19/11/2012 05:16:00 AM
- 1105 Views

Re:
19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM
- 1094 Views

They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5%
19/11/2012 03:19:19 PM
- 1116 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5%
19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM
- 1315 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5%
19/11/2012 09:04:04 PM
- 1070 Views
Hmmm...
20/11/2012 02:08:40 AM
- 1147 Views
Perhaps, but Egwene is also being a bit dramatic in the scene as she managed
20/11/2012 04:28:57 AM
- 1094 Views
Nope...
20/11/2012 03:13:13 PM
- 1145 Views
I believe she is being over dramatic
20/11/2012 03:26:24 PM
- 1039 Views
Keep believing that...
20/11/2012 03:30:14 PM
- 1181 Views
*shrugs*
20/11/2012 03:49:10 PM
- 1127 Views
Tired and forkroot are the same now?
20/11/2012 03:55:22 PM
- 1019 Views
No it's the literary device
20/11/2012 04:04:28 PM
- 1164 Views
Impossible. Daigian is exactly 0.32SD below the mean
19/11/2012 11:06:04 AM
- 1096 Views
You keep saying that, but it is either a linear or a non-linear distribution
19/11/2012 09:09:32 PM
- 1145 Views
That's the whole point. Thanks for finally seeing it.
19/11/2012 09:43:27 PM
- 1109 Views
keep believing that ... but you making up numbers isn't really relevant *NM*
20/11/2012 04:29:44 AM
- 699 Views
Please show me a number that is made up. The 0.32SD for Daigian is a rule of statistics.
20/11/2012 07:15:48 AM
- 1061 Views
Ugh. I hate power level discussions. For real world applications, it should be kind of meaningless
16/11/2012 10:28:49 PM
- 1047 Views
I don't really agree
18/11/2012 08:40:53 PM
- 1022 Views
Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel
19/11/2012 09:13:48 PM
- 1067 Views
Re: Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel
20/11/2012 08:10:01 AM
- 1040 Views
Since I've proven that it's not a normal distribution in units of absolute strength, SDs don't apply
17/11/2012 07:48:21 PM
- 1100 Views
You have proven nothing, except that you have an opinion *NM*
18/11/2012 02:21:35 AM
- 674 Views
You simply don't get it. It is mathematically a fact. There is no opinion involved.
18/11/2012 02:19:40 PM
- 931 Views
Only because you've assigned numeric values. That you created.
18/11/2012 02:40:51 PM
- 1064 Views
It doesn't matter what figure you use...
18/11/2012 03:01:56 PM
- 947 Views
What if Daigian is one third Lanfear's strength?
18/11/2012 04:37:58 PM
- 1107 Views
Sure you can
18/11/2012 10:09:31 PM
- 1098 Views
Re: Sure you can
18/11/2012 10:54:50 PM
- 1076 Views
You're right, though its 37.5%
19/11/2012 12:21:29 AM
- 1025 Views
Oops, typo!
19/11/2012 02:54:25 AM
- 1074 Views
Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean
19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM
- 1030 Views
Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
19/11/2012 04:05:12 PM
- 957 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
19/11/2012 05:55:02 PM
- 908 Views
Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined
19/11/2012 09:19:50 PM
- 1032 Views
Re: Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined
20/11/2012 02:11:26 AM
- 1079 Views
Forkroot in every case
20/11/2012 04:32:26 AM
- 1031 Views
No!
20/11/2012 03:15:16 PM
- 1018 Views
I'm not going to go re-read the books to you on this
20/11/2012 03:39:46 PM
- 1045 Views
You need to read it for yourself, since you're completely confused.
20/11/2012 03:54:26 PM
- 1007 Views
Not going to argue this with you.
20/11/2012 04:09:44 PM
- 962 Views
Your own example disproved your point...
20/11/2012 04:39:25 PM
- 1078 Views
let's see, she's both asleep and would need hours to regain her strength
20/11/2012 04:43:17 PM
- 985 Views
Enough!
20/11/2012 05:04:06 PM
- 1042 Views
LOL ... whatever. You go on believing that ... no one else sees it this way. *NM*
20/11/2012 05:20:52 PM
- 665 Views
Re: Your own example disproved your point...
20/11/2012 05:10:15 PM
- 1081 Views
Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than
20/11/2012 05:26:31 PM
- 1086 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
20/11/2012 02:26:47 AM
- 990 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
20/11/2012 09:03:40 AM
- 1016 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
20/11/2012 02:59:08 PM
- 1053 Views
None of this is backed by any evidence...
20/11/2012 03:24:12 PM
- 985 Views
who said Cadsuane was 1.5x Moiraine or more?
20/11/2012 04:03:13 PM
- 992 Views
Nope...
20/11/2012 04:41:35 PM
- 1013 Views
wrong
20/11/2012 04:48:50 PM
- 941 Views
Better evidence? LOL!
20/11/2012 03:18:55 PM
- 1032 Views
Huh? How did you come to that conclusion?
20/11/2012 04:40:56 PM
- 1037 Views
BEcause Cadsuane is close on the heels of Egwene?
20/11/2012 05:10:50 PM
- 938 Views
I'm not arguing that. I agree that Cadsuane is pretty close to Egwene
20/11/2012 05:50:34 PM
- 1050 Views
Interesting, but let's go with your figures...
19/11/2012 06:54:54 AM
- 1064 Views
Indeed
19/11/2012 08:16:44 AM
- 1120 Views
Rand is sort of a special case
20/11/2012 04:25:02 AM
- 985 Views
Regarding Mesaana...
20/11/2012 08:42:56 AM
- 1021 Views
You continue to mix two things
20/11/2012 03:24:44 PM
- 946 Views
No
20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM
- 1179 Views
You are mistaken
20/11/2012 05:04:40 PM
- 1032 Views
Probably, but the AS have no idea what 37.5% means
19/11/2012 02:59:26 AM
- 983 Views
It's irrelevant
19/11/2012 03:46:42 AM
- 1055 Views
Agreed. Daigian is the marker of the absolute bottom of Aes Sedai strength.
19/11/2012 06:55:41 AM
- 1022 Views
Daigian
19/11/2012 08:12:19 AM
- 1030 Views
It is a direct marker due to RJ's quote
19/11/2012 08:50:26 AM
- 1048 Views
You missed my point
19/11/2012 09:08:42 AM
- 974 Views
Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS
20/11/2012 04:41:11 AM
- 990 Views
Re: Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS
20/11/2012 09:07:49 AM
- 982 Views
Re: Sure you can
19/11/2012 09:22:09 AM
- 1109 Views
Care to explain this...
19/11/2012 05:06:28 PM
- 938 Views
Indeed
20/11/2012 07:16:37 AM
- 1139 Views
Explained far better than I ever could. Bravo.
20/11/2012 07:30:29 AM
- 992 Views
Well duh.
20/11/2012 02:57:24 PM
- 1101 Views
Incorrect.
20/11/2012 04:28:07 PM
- 1089 Views
No
20/11/2012 04:44:16 PM
- 1074 Views
You're integrating without lower limits...
20/11/2012 02:55:06 PM
- 1046 Views
We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case
20/11/2012 04:44:24 AM
- 886 Views
Re: We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case
20/11/2012 07:02:47 AM
- 1095 Views
You must tell me of this special math...
20/11/2012 03:10:09 PM
- 965 Views
Re: You must tell me of this special math...
20/11/2012 04:29:40 PM
- 1020 Views
Morghase is a placeholder...
20/11/2012 04:45:42 PM
- 1101 Views
Well...
18/11/2012 08:43:59 PM
- 1096 Views
Re: Well...
19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM
- 1074 Views
Wow.
19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM
- 1100 Views
Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid
19/11/2012 06:09:36 PM
- 1006 Views
Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid
19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM
- 878 Views
this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power
20/11/2012 04:51:20 AM
- 1099 Views
Re: this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power
20/11/2012 02:45:18 PM
- 1007 Views
I think RJ went out of his way to keep strength a bit of a mystery
20/11/2012 08:42:44 PM
- 1016 Views
Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable...
21/11/2012 05:12:24 PM
- 1035 Views
the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really
22/11/2012 02:55:03 AM
- 1081 Views
Re: the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really
22/11/2012 03:15:33 AM
- 1402 Views
I do not think you can calculate the Mean without knowing the Units of Power
22/11/2012 03:53:59 AM
- 1166 Views