You can't really substantiate that opinion. There are several quotes stating that Ishamael equalled Lews Therin in power.
But none of them is verbatim, all of them are interpretations from AOL texts by third agers, and we cban't be sure the texts themselves truly referred to his OP raw strength and not to the power he wielded in the Shadow being comparable to LTT's in the Light. The other problem is that we know this comes from AS interpretation of AOL texts (or worse, Breaking and post-Breaking ones), and today's AS judge "power" on raw saidar potential, whereas all the signs in the series suggest AOLers also include skills when they speak of an Aes Sedai's power (they differentiate between strength and global power), that raw strength is only a factor in their global description (which only makes sense in a world full of angreal...). Mierin was as strong as any woman, yet she was only an Aes Sedai of middling power who never achieved anything worthy of a third name honorific. Her OP skills musn't be so amazing for someone as strong, she was a good OP scientist, good enough to enter the Collam Daan, but by the standards of her Age not remarkable, not enough to get any public attention for her skills. Just that might suggest she's not as powerful as LTT, that her mastery over saidar isn't enough to match his strength in saidin by higher efficiency.
The problem with Ishamael being so strong in saidin is that if he is, combined with his status as Nae'blis, it's extremely hard to understand why Demandred doesn't hate him just as much as he hates LTT. He envies Moridin's status, but nothing else. Demandred acts toward Moridin as if he is the stronger of the two.
Moridin is clearly strong, but I don't think we can be in any way certain of his exact strength, not even how he compares in raw strength to Demandred (who was second only to LTT) or Aginor (who had rare amazing skills in some areas that could very well taint his description as "powerful", unless we have a direct quote Dashiva matches Rand or almost in raw strength).
I've been saying this for ten years. Great to see you saying it so unexpectedly.
Totally agree.
Well I've been saying for years now the Forsaken info from the AOL is unreliable unless it comes from one of them directly or from LTT's memories, and even then we have to pay great attention to the context.
We don't agree on all things in this. For instance it's clear LTT and Bel Medar developped great fighting/warfare related skills, but I don't agree the quotes about them being "the greatest of the Age" are reliable to judge of their OP skills. All we can be certain of is that it refers to their social status. Both were Guild administrators of very high standing, and both were high profile public figures (novelists, it appears - Jordan's little joke). It's fairly doubtful they were the best channelers of their time pre WOS. Neither were probably matches, not even close, for the best channelers at the Collam Daan. There's only two Chosen we know had exceptional, remarkable OP skills in their Age beyond any doubt, and they're Aginor and Semirhage. Aginor more than Semirhage. AS used the OP for music, so maybe Asmodean shone in that area, but we can't be sure. Graendal's reknown had nothing to do with her skills or strength. For now there's no solid evidence LTT's skills were that exceptional, and by extension Demandred's. The Chosen (incl. Demandred) all seem to find Mesaana's knowledge reliable and useful, for instance, and she was a failed OP scholar... That gives an idea where the top scientists stood, if the Chosen consider Mesaana knowledgeable (and curiously, none of them ever referred to Lanfear's scholarly knowledge... which highly suggests her speciality was fairly narrow, and obviously it was tel'aran'rhiod)...
There's no evidence that Aginor was skilled with the OP, and I would hazard to say that he was not particularly skilled. He merely understood the nature of life better than anyone alive at the time. It's more than likely he used various ter'angreal to obtain his goals, and there's not much proof that he personally channeled his own creations using immense skill.
On a purely empirical basis, the Forsaken with the greatest OP skill was Semirhage, because she could heal so prolifically. Graendal did not work skillfully with the OP, contrary what most people believe, she used mental manipulation without the Power, but you mentioned this.
I don't particularly agree with you regarding Lews Therin. I think its implied that overall he was the most prolific channeler. It's hinted very subtly but Asmodean mentions that only Lews Therin, Demandred and Semirhage could block a gateway - it's a small pointer. There are others, but Lanfear did say that he was as strong as any channeler alive, and that didn't mean only in strength. I do think that Lews Therin/Barid Bel spent a lot of their time refining their OP abilities. It was a likely path to status, and they both enjoyed accolades. There were channelers with huge individual Talents (Lews Therin mentions several by name), but overall these two had the highest strength and skill combination.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
How many standard deviations is Lanfear
15/11/2012 06:04:39 PM
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Hmm...
15/11/2012 07:25:34 PM
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see we CAN agree on stuff
15/11/2012 07:56:12 PM
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18/11/2012 08:37:22 PM
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Re:
18/11/2012 11:07:17 PM
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Re:
19/11/2012 05:16:00 AM
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Re:
19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM
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They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5%
19/11/2012 03:19:19 PM
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Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5%
19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM
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Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5%
19/11/2012 09:04:04 PM
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Hmmm...
20/11/2012 02:08:40 AM
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Perhaps, but Egwene is also being a bit dramatic in the scene as she managed
20/11/2012 04:28:57 AM
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Nope...
20/11/2012 03:13:13 PM
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I believe she is being over dramatic
20/11/2012 03:26:24 PM
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Keep believing that...
20/11/2012 03:30:14 PM
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*shrugs*
20/11/2012 03:49:10 PM
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Tired and forkroot are the same now?
20/11/2012 03:55:22 PM
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No it's the literary device
20/11/2012 04:04:28 PM
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Impossible. Daigian is exactly 0.32SD below the mean
19/11/2012 11:06:04 AM
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You keep saying that, but it is either a linear or a non-linear distribution
19/11/2012 09:09:32 PM
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That's the whole point. Thanks for finally seeing it.
19/11/2012 09:43:27 PM
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keep believing that ... but you making up numbers isn't really relevant *NM*
20/11/2012 04:29:44 AM
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Please show me a number that is made up. The 0.32SD for Daigian is a rule of statistics.
20/11/2012 07:15:48 AM
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Ugh. I hate power level discussions. For real world applications, it should be kind of meaningless
16/11/2012 10:28:49 PM
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I don't really agree
18/11/2012 08:40:53 PM
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Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel
19/11/2012 09:13:48 PM
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Re: Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel
20/11/2012 08:10:01 AM
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Since I've proven that it's not a normal distribution in units of absolute strength, SDs don't apply
17/11/2012 07:48:21 PM
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You have proven nothing, except that you have an opinion *NM*
18/11/2012 02:21:35 AM
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You simply don't get it. It is mathematically a fact. There is no opinion involved.
18/11/2012 02:19:40 PM
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Only because you've assigned numeric values. That you created.
18/11/2012 02:40:51 PM
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It doesn't matter what figure you use...
18/11/2012 03:01:56 PM
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What if Daigian is one third Lanfear's strength?
18/11/2012 04:37:58 PM
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Sure you can
18/11/2012 10:09:31 PM
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Re: Sure you can
18/11/2012 10:54:50 PM
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You're right, though its 37.5%
19/11/2012 12:21:29 AM
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Oops, typo!
19/11/2012 02:54:25 AM
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Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean
19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM
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Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
19/11/2012 04:05:12 PM
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Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
19/11/2012 05:55:02 PM
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Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined
19/11/2012 09:19:50 PM
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Re: Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined
20/11/2012 02:11:26 AM
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Forkroot in every case
20/11/2012 04:32:26 AM
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No!
20/11/2012 03:15:16 PM
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I'm not going to go re-read the books to you on this
20/11/2012 03:39:46 PM
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You need to read it for yourself, since you're completely confused.
20/11/2012 03:54:26 PM
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Not going to argue this with you.
20/11/2012 04:09:44 PM
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Your own example disproved your point...
20/11/2012 04:39:25 PM
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let's see, she's both asleep and would need hours to regain her strength
20/11/2012 04:43:17 PM
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Enough!
20/11/2012 05:04:06 PM
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LOL ... whatever. You go on believing that ... no one else sees it this way. *NM*
20/11/2012 05:20:52 PM
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Re: Your own example disproved your point...
20/11/2012 05:10:15 PM
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Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than
20/11/2012 05:26:31 PM
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Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
20/11/2012 02:26:47 AM
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Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
20/11/2012 09:03:40 AM
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Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
20/11/2012 02:59:08 PM
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None of this is backed by any evidence...
20/11/2012 03:24:12 PM
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who said Cadsuane was 1.5x Moiraine or more?
20/11/2012 04:03:13 PM
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Nope...
20/11/2012 04:41:35 PM
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wrong
20/11/2012 04:48:50 PM
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Better evidence? LOL!
20/11/2012 03:18:55 PM
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Huh? How did you come to that conclusion?
20/11/2012 04:40:56 PM
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BEcause Cadsuane is close on the heels of Egwene?
20/11/2012 05:10:50 PM
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I'm not arguing that. I agree that Cadsuane is pretty close to Egwene
20/11/2012 05:50:34 PM
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Interesting, but let's go with your figures...
19/11/2012 06:54:54 AM
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Indeed
19/11/2012 08:16:44 AM
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Rand is sort of a special case
20/11/2012 04:25:02 AM
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Regarding Mesaana...
20/11/2012 08:42:56 AM
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You continue to mix two things
20/11/2012 03:24:44 PM
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No
20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM
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You are mistaken
20/11/2012 05:04:40 PM
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Probably, but the AS have no idea what 37.5% means
19/11/2012 02:59:26 AM
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It's irrelevant
19/11/2012 03:46:42 AM
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Agreed. Daigian is the marker of the absolute bottom of Aes Sedai strength.
19/11/2012 06:55:41 AM
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Daigian
19/11/2012 08:12:19 AM
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It is a direct marker due to RJ's quote
19/11/2012 08:50:26 AM
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You missed my point
19/11/2012 09:08:42 AM
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Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS
20/11/2012 04:41:11 AM
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Re: Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS
20/11/2012 09:07:49 AM
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Re: Sure you can
19/11/2012 09:22:09 AM
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Care to explain this...
19/11/2012 05:06:28 PM
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Indeed
20/11/2012 07:16:37 AM
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Explained far better than I ever could. Bravo.
20/11/2012 07:30:29 AM
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Well duh.
20/11/2012 02:57:24 PM
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Incorrect.
20/11/2012 04:28:07 PM
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No
20/11/2012 04:44:16 PM
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You're integrating without lower limits...
20/11/2012 02:55:06 PM
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We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case
20/11/2012 04:44:24 AM
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Re: We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case
20/11/2012 07:02:47 AM
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You must tell me of this special math...
20/11/2012 03:10:09 PM
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Re: You must tell me of this special math...
20/11/2012 04:29:40 PM
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Morghase is a placeholder...
20/11/2012 04:45:42 PM
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Well...
18/11/2012 08:43:59 PM
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Re: Well...
19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM
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Wow.
19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM
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Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid
19/11/2012 06:09:36 PM
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Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid
19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM
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this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power
20/11/2012 04:51:20 AM
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Re: this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power
20/11/2012 02:45:18 PM
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I think RJ went out of his way to keep strength a bit of a mystery
20/11/2012 08:42:44 PM
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Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable...
21/11/2012 05:12:24 PM
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the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really
22/11/2012 02:55:03 AM
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Re: the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really
22/11/2012 03:15:33 AM
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I do not think you can calculate the Mean without knowing the Units of Power
22/11/2012 03:53:59 AM
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