Morgase is probably as rare as Lanfear.
Unless she's perhaps not the weakest woman possible, just the weakest known. There may be levels (I'm not referring to the 21...) below Morgase where the ability isn't even really quantifiable by a channeler.
It's just that no Aes Sedai mentionning Morgase's strength did comment that it was unique or almost unique to find a woman so weak.
But yeah, it seems more likely women like Morgase are as rare as women around Lanfear's strength. Sorilea's strength is likely to be fairly rare too, if not as rare as Morgase's (perhaps more comparable to the rarity of women like Graendal).
True, but they did describe her ability as negligible. We already know that women can't detect strength with extreme precision (they describe dueling as the only real way to know if two similar women are really equal). It's likely that Morgase gives off such a weak resonance that discriminating higher and lower levels is impossible. It's all "negligible" until it's "not negligible".
Yup, but of course to AS anyone without the spark falling short of the benchmark strength to become an Accepted is "negligible". Hard to be sure Morgase really the weakest possible, a mirror of Lanfear at the other end.
The problem is women like Morgase aren't even "awakened" by AS if they're not sparkers. They did for Morgase out of a purely political agenda. They didn't invest much efforts in teaching her - they went through the motions and gave her the ring and that was it - and we know Morgase's problem is that she has a personality not naturally prone to anything like "surrendering". That would have made it hard for her, like Nynaeve for instance. I suspect her difficulties embracing the source have nothing at all to do with her puny strength and all to do with the AS giving up too soon. Then, obviously, Morgase would have had tons of problems training because she can't access enough saidar to do much of anything, and so she couldn't progress. In the AOL such a woman would have most likely been given a very low strength angreal to train and progress, then a bigger and a bigger. We know low strength people can become skilled weavers (Sorilea or Androl are examples). I'm pretty sure if Morgase had been born in the AOL, with an angreal like Moiraine's (the new one) she might have outshined most of today's AS's skills... If Elayne ever learns the making of angreal, she might very well make a decent channeler out of her mother one day.
Considering the rarity of some talents, it's pretty absurd the WT has set its standards so high that they reject 62.5% of women. There's no telling what talents women like Morgase might have. Even if a woman like Sorilea is deemed too weak to be full Aes Sedai, essentially out of fear for the Tower's image, she'd have been a formidable addition to the Tower, and given she's a fast learner and can already form complex weaves she's not strong enough to make work..she'd only need an angreal to be a good teacher, for instance.
62.5% are strong enough to pass. 32.5% are not. Which seems fair, I would say.
Yup, I inverted the number by error, but that's still amazingly stupid to do that. Not as stupid as if they could still make angreal, but still fairly stupid considering some of the strongest sisters in TV are among the most appalling and incompetent Aes Sedai (Elaida and Sheriam come to mind) and the weakest sister in constrast met Cadsuane's far more exacting standards of competence.
Raw strength should not be a factor at all, they should train all women to their fullest, and use their angreal collection that collects dust to push the weaker ones further in their OP skills. You never know when those skills might be useful. Raw strength merely determines how far a woman can go before needing a circle or angreal to go further. Androl is evidence enough a very weak channeler can demonstrate an amazing and rare talent, and there's no telling what other skills he has the potential for but that won't emerge unless he leads a circle to boost his strength to a decent working level often enough to discover all his skills.
The WT has no doubt lost many Talents by rejecting nearly a woman out of three based on raw potential alone. It's all the more stupid that the average AS barely use her strength or OP skills. For lack of enough angreal (which can't really be risked out of the Tower), weak women can't be Greens or Reds, but Whites, many Browns and Grey barely use or need their OP skills. Daigian has a keener mind than most Whites because she's one of the rare ones who wasn't rushed to the shawl because she's weak and had both the time and pressure to shine at her studies. We've seen just enough of the Whites in action to tell the Ajah could really use more Daigians...
How many standard deviations is Lanfear
15/11/2012 06:04:39 PM
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Hmm...
15/11/2012 07:25:34 PM
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see we CAN agree on stuff
15/11/2012 07:56:12 PM
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18/11/2012 08:37:22 PM
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Re:
18/11/2012 11:07:17 PM
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Re:
19/11/2012 05:16:00 AM
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Re:
19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM
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They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5%
19/11/2012 03:19:19 PM
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Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5%
19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM
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Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5%
19/11/2012 09:04:04 PM
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Hmmm...
20/11/2012 02:08:40 AM
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Perhaps, but Egwene is also being a bit dramatic in the scene as she managed
20/11/2012 04:28:57 AM
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Nope...
20/11/2012 03:13:13 PM
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I believe she is being over dramatic
20/11/2012 03:26:24 PM
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Keep believing that...
20/11/2012 03:30:14 PM
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*shrugs*
20/11/2012 03:49:10 PM
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Tired and forkroot are the same now?
20/11/2012 03:55:22 PM
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No it's the literary device
20/11/2012 04:04:28 PM
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Impossible. Daigian is exactly 0.32SD below the mean
19/11/2012 11:06:04 AM
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You keep saying that, but it is either a linear or a non-linear distribution
19/11/2012 09:09:32 PM
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That's the whole point. Thanks for finally seeing it.
19/11/2012 09:43:27 PM
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keep believing that ... but you making up numbers isn't really relevant *NM*
20/11/2012 04:29:44 AM
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Please show me a number that is made up. The 0.32SD for Daigian is a rule of statistics.
20/11/2012 07:15:48 AM
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Ugh. I hate power level discussions. For real world applications, it should be kind of meaningless
16/11/2012 10:28:49 PM
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I don't really agree
18/11/2012 08:40:53 PM
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Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel
19/11/2012 09:13:48 PM
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Re: Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel
20/11/2012 08:10:01 AM
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Since I've proven that it's not a normal distribution in units of absolute strength, SDs don't apply
17/11/2012 07:48:21 PM
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You have proven nothing, except that you have an opinion *NM*
18/11/2012 02:21:35 AM
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You simply don't get it. It is mathematically a fact. There is no opinion involved.
18/11/2012 02:19:40 PM
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Only because you've assigned numeric values. That you created.
18/11/2012 02:40:51 PM
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It doesn't matter what figure you use...
18/11/2012 03:01:56 PM
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What if Daigian is one third Lanfear's strength?
18/11/2012 04:37:58 PM
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Sure you can
18/11/2012 10:09:31 PM
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Re: Sure you can
18/11/2012 10:54:50 PM
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You're right, though its 37.5%
19/11/2012 12:21:29 AM
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Oops, typo!
19/11/2012 02:54:25 AM
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Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean
19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM
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Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
19/11/2012 04:05:12 PM
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Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
19/11/2012 05:55:02 PM
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Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined
19/11/2012 09:19:50 PM
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Re: Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined
20/11/2012 02:11:26 AM
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Forkroot in every case
20/11/2012 04:32:26 AM
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No!
20/11/2012 03:15:16 PM
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I'm not going to go re-read the books to you on this
20/11/2012 03:39:46 PM
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You need to read it for yourself, since you're completely confused.
20/11/2012 03:54:26 PM
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Not going to argue this with you.
20/11/2012 04:09:44 PM
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Your own example disproved your point...
20/11/2012 04:39:25 PM
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let's see, she's both asleep and would need hours to regain her strength
20/11/2012 04:43:17 PM
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Enough!
20/11/2012 05:04:06 PM
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LOL ... whatever. You go on believing that ... no one else sees it this way. *NM*
20/11/2012 05:20:52 PM
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Re: Your own example disproved your point...
20/11/2012 05:10:15 PM
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Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than
20/11/2012 05:26:31 PM
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Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
20/11/2012 02:26:47 AM
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Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
20/11/2012 09:03:40 AM
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Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys...
20/11/2012 02:59:08 PM
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None of this is backed by any evidence...
20/11/2012 03:24:12 PM
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who said Cadsuane was 1.5x Moiraine or more?
20/11/2012 04:03:13 PM
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Nope...
20/11/2012 04:41:35 PM
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wrong
20/11/2012 04:48:50 PM
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Better evidence? LOL!
20/11/2012 03:18:55 PM
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Huh? How did you come to that conclusion?
20/11/2012 04:40:56 PM
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BEcause Cadsuane is close on the heels of Egwene?
20/11/2012 05:10:50 PM
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I'm not arguing that. I agree that Cadsuane is pretty close to Egwene
20/11/2012 05:50:34 PM
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Interesting, but let's go with your figures...
19/11/2012 06:54:54 AM
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Indeed
19/11/2012 08:16:44 AM
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Rand is sort of a special case
20/11/2012 04:25:02 AM
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Regarding Mesaana...
20/11/2012 08:42:56 AM
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You continue to mix two things
20/11/2012 03:24:44 PM
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No
20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM
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You are mistaken
20/11/2012 05:04:40 PM
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Probably, but the AS have no idea what 37.5% means
19/11/2012 02:59:26 AM
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It's irrelevant
19/11/2012 03:46:42 AM
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Agreed. Daigian is the marker of the absolute bottom of Aes Sedai strength.
19/11/2012 06:55:41 AM
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Daigian
19/11/2012 08:12:19 AM
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It is a direct marker due to RJ's quote
19/11/2012 08:50:26 AM
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You missed my point
19/11/2012 09:08:42 AM
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Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS
20/11/2012 04:41:11 AM
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Re: Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS
20/11/2012 09:07:49 AM
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Re: Sure you can
19/11/2012 09:22:09 AM
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Care to explain this...
19/11/2012 05:06:28 PM
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Indeed
20/11/2012 07:16:37 AM
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Explained far better than I ever could. Bravo.
20/11/2012 07:30:29 AM
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Well duh.
20/11/2012 02:57:24 PM
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Incorrect.
20/11/2012 04:28:07 PM
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No
20/11/2012 04:44:16 PM
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You're integrating without lower limits...
20/11/2012 02:55:06 PM
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We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case
20/11/2012 04:44:24 AM
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Re: We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case
20/11/2012 07:02:47 AM
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You must tell me of this special math...
20/11/2012 03:10:09 PM
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Re: You must tell me of this special math...
20/11/2012 04:29:40 PM
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Morghase is a placeholder...
20/11/2012 04:45:42 PM
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Well...
18/11/2012 08:43:59 PM
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Re: Well...
19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM
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Wow.
19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM
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Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid
19/11/2012 06:09:36 PM
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Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid
19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM
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this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power
20/11/2012 04:51:20 AM
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Re: this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power
20/11/2012 02:45:18 PM
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I think RJ went out of his way to keep strength a bit of a mystery
20/11/2012 08:42:44 PM
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Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable...
21/11/2012 05:12:24 PM
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the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really
22/11/2012 02:55:03 AM
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Re: the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really
22/11/2012 03:15:33 AM
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I do not think you can calculate the Mean without knowing the Units of Power
22/11/2012 03:53:59 AM
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