Active Users:1113 Time:14/11/2024 10:39:45 PM
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% DomA Send a noteboard - 19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM
Morgase is probably as rare as Lanfear.


Unless she's perhaps not the weakest woman possible, just the weakest known. There may be levels (I'm not referring to the 21...) below Morgase where the ability isn't even really quantifiable by a channeler.

It's just that no Aes Sedai mentionning Morgase's strength did comment that it was unique or almost unique to find a woman so weak.

But yeah, it seems more likely women like Morgase are as rare as women around Lanfear's strength. Sorilea's strength is likely to be fairly rare too, if not as rare as Morgase's (perhaps more comparable to the rarity of women like Graendal).



True, but they did describe her ability as negligible. We already know that women can't detect strength with extreme precision (they describe dueling as the only real way to know if two similar women are really equal). It's likely that Morgase gives off such a weak resonance that discriminating higher and lower levels is impossible. It's all "negligible" until it's "not negligible".


Yup, but of course to AS anyone without the spark falling short of the benchmark strength to become an Accepted is "negligible". Hard to be sure Morgase really the weakest possible, a mirror of Lanfear at the other end.

The problem is women like Morgase aren't even "awakened" by AS if they're not sparkers. They did for Morgase out of a purely political agenda. They didn't invest much efforts in teaching her - they went through the motions and gave her the ring and that was it - and we know Morgase's problem is that she has a personality not naturally prone to anything like "surrendering". That would have made it hard for her, like Nynaeve for instance. I suspect her difficulties embracing the source have nothing at all to do with her puny strength and all to do with the AS giving up too soon. Then, obviously, Morgase would have had tons of problems training because she can't access enough saidar to do much of anything, and so she couldn't progress. In the AOL such a woman would have most likely been given a very low strength angreal to train and progress, then a bigger and a bigger. We know low strength people can become skilled weavers (Sorilea or Androl are examples). I'm pretty sure if Morgase had been born in the AOL, with an angreal like Moiraine's (the new one) she might have outshined most of today's AS's skills... If Elayne ever learns the making of angreal, she might very well make a decent channeler out of her mother one day.

Considering the rarity of some talents, it's pretty absurd the WT has set its standards so high that they reject 62.5% of women. There's no telling what talents women like Morgase might have. Even if a woman like Sorilea is deemed too weak to be full Aes Sedai, essentially out of fear for the Tower's image, she'd have been a formidable addition to the Tower, and given she's a fast learner and can already form complex weaves she's not strong enough to make work..she'd only need an angreal to be a good teacher, for instance.



62.5% are strong enough to pass. 32.5% are not. Which seems fair, I would say.


Yup, I inverted the number by error, but that's still amazingly stupid to do that. Not as stupid as if they could still make angreal, but still fairly stupid considering some of the strongest sisters in TV are among the most appalling and incompetent Aes Sedai (Elaida and Sheriam come to mind) and the weakest sister in constrast met Cadsuane's far more exacting standards of competence.

Raw strength should not be a factor at all, they should train all women to their fullest, and use their angreal collection that collects dust to push the weaker ones further in their OP skills. You never know when those skills might be useful. Raw strength merely determines how far a woman can go before needing a circle or angreal to go further. Androl is evidence enough a very weak channeler can demonstrate an amazing and rare talent, and there's no telling what other skills he has the potential for but that won't emerge unless he leads a circle to boost his strength to a decent working level often enough to discover all his skills.

The WT has no doubt lost many Talents by rejecting nearly a woman out of three based on raw potential alone. It's all the more stupid that the average AS barely use her strength or OP skills. For lack of enough angreal (which can't really be risked out of the Tower), weak women can't be Greens or Reds, but Whites, many Browns and Grey barely use or need their OP skills. Daigian has a keener mind than most Whites because she's one of the rare ones who wasn't rushed to the shawl because she's weak and had both the time and pressure to shine at her studies. We've seen just enough of the Whites in action to tell the Ajah could really use more Daigians...





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How many standard deviations is Lanfear - 15/11/2012 06:04:39 PM 2071 Views
Well... - 15/11/2012 07:02:45 PM 1109 Views
Hmm... - 15/11/2012 07:25:34 PM 1206 Views
see we CAN agree on stuff - 15/11/2012 07:56:12 PM 1063 Views
- 18/11/2012 08:37:22 PM 957 Views
We've always been close with everything except the scale - 18/11/2012 10:29:07 PM 993 Views
Re: - 18/11/2012 11:07:17 PM 1163 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 05:16:00 AM 989 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM 994 Views
They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 03:19:19 PM 997 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM 1204 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 09:04:04 PM 950 Views
Hmmm... - 20/11/2012 02:08:40 AM 1016 Views
Perhaps, but Egwene is also being a bit dramatic in the scene as she managed - 20/11/2012 04:28:57 AM 974 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 03:13:13 PM 1025 Views
I believe she is being over dramatic - 20/11/2012 03:26:24 PM 922 Views
Keep believing that... - 20/11/2012 03:30:14 PM 1051 Views
*shrugs* - 20/11/2012 03:49:10 PM 1002 Views
Tired and forkroot are the same now? - 20/11/2012 03:55:22 PM 908 Views
No it's the literary device - 20/11/2012 04:04:28 PM 1029 Views
This is getting ridiculous... - 20/11/2012 04:43:13 PM 907 Views
You are missing my point completely - 20/11/2012 04:50:46 PM 870 Views
Impossible. Daigian is exactly 0.32SD below the mean - 19/11/2012 11:06:04 AM 973 Views
You keep saying that, but it is either a linear or a non-linear distribution - 19/11/2012 09:09:32 PM 1029 Views
That's the whole point. Thanks for finally seeing it. - 19/11/2012 09:43:27 PM 991 Views
keep believing that ... but you making up numbers isn't really relevant *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:29:44 AM 653 Views
Please show me a number that is made up. The 0.32SD for Daigian is a rule of statistics. - 20/11/2012 07:15:48 AM 954 Views
Go read Fionwe's post about it *NM* - 20/11/2012 02:33:19 PM 668 Views
Is that before or after she started juicing? - 15/11/2012 11:04:14 PM 967 Views
Wouldn't it be 1 in 105 million? - 21/11/2012 04:56:19 PM 819 Views
Are you sure that it is a normal distribution? - 16/11/2012 04:21:02 PM 1043 Views
Ugh. I hate power level discussions. For real world applications, it should be kind of meaningless - 16/11/2012 10:28:49 PM 943 Views
I don't really agree - 18/11/2012 08:40:53 PM 886 Views
Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 19/11/2012 09:13:48 PM 959 Views
Re: Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 20/11/2012 08:10:01 AM 930 Views
probably ... Lanfear/Cyndane is clearly remarkably skilled - 20/11/2012 02:35:09 PM 971 Views
Since I've proven that it's not a normal distribution in units of absolute strength, SDs don't apply - 17/11/2012 07:48:21 PM 989 Views
You have proven nothing, except that you have an opinion *NM* - 18/11/2012 02:21:35 AM 636 Views
You simply don't get it. It is mathematically a fact. There is no opinion involved. - 18/11/2012 02:19:40 PM 833 Views
Only because you've assigned numeric values. That you created. - 18/11/2012 02:40:51 PM 957 Views
It doesn't matter what figure you use... - 18/11/2012 03:01:56 PM 835 Views
What if Daigian is one third Lanfear's strength? - 18/11/2012 04:37:58 PM 978 Views
We have a limit for Daigian's strength, as you well know. - 18/11/2012 05:41:49 PM 931 Views
Are you kidding me? - 18/11/2012 09:07:38 PM 1090 Views
Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:09:31 PM 990 Views
Re: Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:54:50 PM 940 Views
You're right, though its 37.5% - 19/11/2012 12:21:29 AM 905 Views
Oops, typo! - 19/11/2012 02:54:25 AM 975 Views
Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean - 19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM 926 Views
Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 04:05:12 PM 869 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 05:55:02 PM 798 Views
Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 19/11/2012 09:19:50 PM 915 Views
Re: Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 20/11/2012 02:11:26 AM 942 Views
Forkroot in every case - 20/11/2012 04:32:26 AM 924 Views
No! - 20/11/2012 03:15:16 PM 907 Views
I'm not going to go re-read the books to you on this - 20/11/2012 03:39:46 PM 923 Views
You need to read it for yourself, since you're completely confused. - 20/11/2012 03:54:26 PM 886 Views
Not going to argue this with you. - 20/11/2012 04:09:44 PM 861 Views
Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 04:39:25 PM 951 Views
let's see, she's both asleep and would need hours to regain her strength - 20/11/2012 04:43:17 PM 848 Views
Enough! - 20/11/2012 05:04:06 PM 936 Views
LOL ... whatever. You go on believing that ... no one else sees it this way. *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:20:52 PM 623 Views
What a brilliant argument! - 20/11/2012 05:25:18 PM 969 Views
this is why I refuse to continue this debate - 20/11/2012 05:31:11 PM 886 Views
Re: Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 05:10:15 PM 981 Views
Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:26:31 PM 982 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:31:50 PM 923 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:42:53 PM 918 Views
Excuse me? - 20/11/2012 05:28:48 PM 974 Views
see we can agree on the relative strength of Egwene v. Forsaken - 20/11/2012 05:35:07 PM 923 Views
??? - 20/11/2012 05:37:01 PM 1001 Views
2 middling sisters - 20/11/2012 05:45:27 PM 943 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:26:47 AM 856 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 09:03:40 AM 904 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:59:08 PM 939 Views
None of this is backed by any evidence... - 20/11/2012 03:24:12 PM 858 Views
who said Cadsuane was 1.5x Moiraine or more? - 20/11/2012 04:03:13 PM 860 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 04:41:35 PM 902 Views
wrong - 20/11/2012 04:48:50 PM 835 Views
My bad. Mized up 1/3 and 2/3. - 20/11/2012 05:05:05 PM 926 Views
gotcha *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:46:21 PM 583 Views
Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 03:18:55 PM 907 Views
Huh? How did you come to that conclusion? - 20/11/2012 04:40:56 PM 897 Views
Exactly *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:55:28 PM 869 Views
BEcause Cadsuane is close on the heels of Egwene? - 20/11/2012 05:10:50 PM 816 Views
I'm not arguing that. I agree that Cadsuane is pretty close to Egwene - 20/11/2012 05:50:34 PM 921 Views
Re: Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 05:00:47 PM 829 Views
Interesting, but let's go with your figures... - 19/11/2012 06:54:54 AM 971 Views
Indeed - 19/11/2012 08:16:44 AM 1010 Views
Rand is sort of a special case - 20/11/2012 04:25:02 AM 835 Views
Regarding Mesaana... - 20/11/2012 08:42:56 AM 908 Views
You continue to mix two things - 20/11/2012 03:24:44 PM 835 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM 1058 Views
You are mistaken - 20/11/2012 05:04:40 PM 918 Views
Yes she did Darius! - 20/11/2012 05:27:36 PM 854 Views
Yet there is no duel - 20/11/2012 06:01:17 PM 837 Views
Explain the .3xSD thing to me... - 19/11/2012 04:58:57 PM 1077 Views
Probably, but the AS have no idea what 37.5% means - 19/11/2012 02:59:26 AM 862 Views
It's irrelevant - 19/11/2012 03:46:42 AM 931 Views
Agreed. Daigian is the marker of the absolute bottom of Aes Sedai strength. - 19/11/2012 06:55:41 AM 896 Views
Daigian - 19/11/2012 08:12:19 AM 917 Views
It is a direct marker due to RJ's quote - 19/11/2012 08:50:26 AM 943 Views
You missed my point - 19/11/2012 09:08:42 AM 878 Views
Re: You missed my point - 19/11/2012 02:18:33 PM 947 Views
Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 04:41:11 AM 886 Views
Re: Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 09:07:49 AM 862 Views
Which would make an average AS around a 30 - 20/11/2012 04:58:56 PM 732 Views
Re: Sure you can - 19/11/2012 09:22:09 AM 1007 Views
Care to explain this... - 19/11/2012 05:06:28 PM 848 Views
Indeed - 20/11/2012 07:16:37 AM 1069 Views
Explained far better than I ever could. Bravo. - 20/11/2012 07:30:29 AM 884 Views
Well duh. - 20/11/2012 02:57:24 PM 992 Views
Incorrect. - 20/11/2012 04:28:07 PM 978 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:44:16 PM 954 Views
Re: No - 20/11/2012 04:48:36 PM 947 Views
That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:18:46 PM 818 Views
Re: That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:31:03 PM 1244 Views
You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 02:55:06 PM 928 Views
Re: You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 04:37:57 PM 959 Views
It matters. - 20/11/2012 05:22:40 PM 924 Views
We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 04:44:24 AM 771 Views
Re: We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 07:02:47 AM 959 Views
You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 03:10:09 PM 858 Views
Re: You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 04:29:40 PM 894 Views
Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:45:42 PM 962 Views
Re: Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:49:54 PM 1148 Views
Why? - 20/11/2012 05:23:29 PM 942 Views
Re: Why? - 20/11/2012 05:36:45 PM 1114 Views
Well... - 18/11/2012 08:43:59 PM 994 Views
Re: Well... - 19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM 975 Views
Wow. - 19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM 1018 Views
Re: Wow. - 19/11/2012 04:26:09 PM 1028 Views
Some points - 19/11/2012 06:03:00 PM 1030 Views
Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 06:09:36 PM 870 Views
Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM 771 Views
this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 04:51:20 AM 964 Views
Agreed - 20/11/2012 08:13:37 AM 994 Views
probably - 20/11/2012 06:18:45 PM 877 Views
Re: this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 02:45:18 PM 906 Views
I think RJ went out of his way to keep strength a bit of a mystery - 20/11/2012 08:42:44 PM 913 Views
Indeed... - 21/11/2012 05:44:18 PM 886 Views
I agree - 22/11/2012 01:43:02 AM 1136 Views
Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 21/11/2012 05:12:24 PM 914 Views
the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 02:55:03 AM 979 Views
Re: the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 03:15:33 AM 1267 Views
I do not think you can calculate the Mean without knowing the Units of Power - 22/11/2012 03:53:59 AM 1069 Views
Re: Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 23/11/2012 02:59:12 PM 1197 Views
Disregard this post *NM* - 23/11/2012 03:02:24 PM 838 Views

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