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Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean Shannow Send a noteboard - 19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM
Daigian is just about strong enough to be AS, and I think RJ obviously put her in there to give us a clear bottom rung for Aes Sedai. And he gave us a useful comparison between her and the weakest woman we know who can channel reliably, Sorelia:

Abruptly, the glow of saidar surrounded the leather-faced woman. She was weak enough to make Daigian look at least moderately strong.


Now, my interpretation of this quote is open to discussion, but I think what this is intended to show is that Daigian sits halfway between a powerful Aes Sedai and the weakest of channelers. Cadsuane would consider a woman like Verin to be moderately strong. The presence of Sorelia makes her perspective shift, making it seem like Daigian is of that range. To me that implies that the scale would be

Sorelia + X=Daigian

Daigian + X= Verin

Verin + X= Moiraine

Based on all this, I put Sorelia at about 5, Daigian at 25 , Verin at about 45, and Moiraine at 65.

Leanne, afer being healed, was at the bottom of the heap, at less than half her former strength of 60. At half strength of 30, she would have been at a somewhat better position, and two-thirds her strength, 40, she says most Aes Sedai would have been as strong or stronger (and this makes perfect sense as the Aes Sedai mean will definitely be a bit lower than the overall mean, given how they don't have many stronger women).


I do think you are making the AS too strong here. There isn't enough room for Egwene to be 2x Amys, who is stronger than most AS and roughly 50% Egwene. Leane pre Stilling would have be roughly the same level as Amys, so her being 60 is way too high IMO. If you place Leane around a 45, Amys around 42 and Melaine at 38 it all still works. Leane would now be in the ballpark of 18 and Siuan goes from about 50 to 20 and Moiraine can drop to about a 12 and with the angreal magnifying 5x would still be stronger than before.


If you put Leane at 18, then Daigian cannot be higher than 17.

Daigian is 0.3SD below the mean. That's established by RJ's quote. Meaning she is 33 Units below the Mean, if you put her at 17. Meaning the SD = 33 x3 = around 100!

Clearly impossible in a normal distribution, as all living channelers would then fall within half of 1 SD from the Mean.

Again, the maths are really simple. You can use any figures you want. It is clear that we're not talking about a normal distribution here.
This message last edited by Shannow on 19/11/2012 at 08:51:21 AM
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How many standard deviations is Lanfear - 15/11/2012 06:04:39 PM 2216 Views
Well... - 15/11/2012 07:02:45 PM 1216 Views
Hmm... - 15/11/2012 07:25:34 PM 1345 Views
see we CAN agree on stuff - 15/11/2012 07:56:12 PM 1188 Views
- 18/11/2012 08:37:22 PM 1056 Views
We've always been close with everything except the scale - 18/11/2012 10:29:07 PM 1100 Views
Re: - 18/11/2012 11:07:17 PM 1277 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 05:16:00 AM 1105 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM 1094 Views
They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 03:19:19 PM 1115 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM 1315 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 09:04:04 PM 1070 Views
Hmmm... - 20/11/2012 02:08:40 AM 1146 Views
Perhaps, but Egwene is also being a bit dramatic in the scene as she managed - 20/11/2012 04:28:57 AM 1093 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 03:13:13 PM 1145 Views
I believe she is being over dramatic - 20/11/2012 03:26:24 PM 1038 Views
Keep believing that... - 20/11/2012 03:30:14 PM 1180 Views
*shrugs* - 20/11/2012 03:49:10 PM 1127 Views
Tired and forkroot are the same now? - 20/11/2012 03:55:22 PM 1019 Views
No it's the literary device - 20/11/2012 04:04:28 PM 1164 Views
This is getting ridiculous... - 20/11/2012 04:43:13 PM 1031 Views
You are missing my point completely - 20/11/2012 04:50:46 PM 995 Views
Impossible. Daigian is exactly 0.32SD below the mean - 19/11/2012 11:06:04 AM 1096 Views
You keep saying that, but it is either a linear or a non-linear distribution - 19/11/2012 09:09:32 PM 1145 Views
That's the whole point. Thanks for finally seeing it. - 19/11/2012 09:43:27 PM 1108 Views
keep believing that ... but you making up numbers isn't really relevant *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:29:44 AM 698 Views
Please show me a number that is made up. The 0.32SD for Daigian is a rule of statistics. - 20/11/2012 07:15:48 AM 1061 Views
Go read Fionwe's post about it *NM* - 20/11/2012 02:33:19 PM 699 Views
Is that before or after she started juicing? - 15/11/2012 11:04:14 PM 1090 Views
Wouldn't it be 1 in 105 million? - 21/11/2012 04:56:19 PM 944 Views
Are you sure that it is a normal distribution? - 16/11/2012 04:21:02 PM 1157 Views
Ugh. I hate power level discussions. For real world applications, it should be kind of meaningless - 16/11/2012 10:28:49 PM 1047 Views
I don't really agree - 18/11/2012 08:40:53 PM 1021 Views
Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 19/11/2012 09:13:48 PM 1066 Views
Re: Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 20/11/2012 08:10:01 AM 1040 Views
probably ... Lanfear/Cyndane is clearly remarkably skilled - 20/11/2012 02:35:09 PM 1079 Views
Since I've proven that it's not a normal distribution in units of absolute strength, SDs don't apply - 17/11/2012 07:48:21 PM 1100 Views
You have proven nothing, except that you have an opinion *NM* - 18/11/2012 02:21:35 AM 674 Views
You simply don't get it. It is mathematically a fact. There is no opinion involved. - 18/11/2012 02:19:40 PM 930 Views
Only because you've assigned numeric values. That you created. - 18/11/2012 02:40:51 PM 1064 Views
It doesn't matter what figure you use... - 18/11/2012 03:01:56 PM 946 Views
What if Daigian is one third Lanfear's strength? - 18/11/2012 04:37:58 PM 1106 Views
We have a limit for Daigian's strength, as you well know. - 18/11/2012 05:41:49 PM 1071 Views
Are you kidding me? - 18/11/2012 09:07:38 PM 1195 Views
Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:09:31 PM 1098 Views
Re: Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:54:50 PM 1076 Views
You're right, though its 37.5% - 19/11/2012 12:21:29 AM 1025 Views
Oops, typo! - 19/11/2012 02:54:25 AM 1074 Views
Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean - 19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM 1030 Views
Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 04:05:12 PM 956 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 05:55:02 PM 908 Views
Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 19/11/2012 09:19:50 PM 1032 Views
Re: Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 20/11/2012 02:11:26 AM 1078 Views
Forkroot in every case - 20/11/2012 04:32:26 AM 1030 Views
No! - 20/11/2012 03:15:16 PM 1018 Views
I'm not going to go re-read the books to you on this - 20/11/2012 03:39:46 PM 1045 Views
You need to read it for yourself, since you're completely confused. - 20/11/2012 03:54:26 PM 1006 Views
Not going to argue this with you. - 20/11/2012 04:09:44 PM 962 Views
Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 04:39:25 PM 1078 Views
let's see, she's both asleep and would need hours to regain her strength - 20/11/2012 04:43:17 PM 985 Views
Enough! - 20/11/2012 05:04:06 PM 1041 Views
LOL ... whatever. You go on believing that ... no one else sees it this way. *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:20:52 PM 664 Views
What a brilliant argument! - 20/11/2012 05:25:18 PM 1052 Views
this is why I refuse to continue this debate - 20/11/2012 05:31:11 PM 993 Views
Re: Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 05:10:15 PM 1081 Views
Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:26:31 PM 1085 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:31:50 PM 1046 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:42:53 PM 1037 Views
Excuse me? - 20/11/2012 05:28:48 PM 1083 Views
see we can agree on the relative strength of Egwene v. Forsaken - 20/11/2012 05:35:07 PM 1049 Views
??? - 20/11/2012 05:37:01 PM 1150 Views
2 middling sisters - 20/11/2012 05:45:27 PM 1071 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:26:47 AM 990 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 09:03:40 AM 1016 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:59:08 PM 1052 Views
None of this is backed by any evidence... - 20/11/2012 03:24:12 PM 985 Views
who said Cadsuane was 1.5x Moiraine or more? - 20/11/2012 04:03:13 PM 992 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 04:41:35 PM 1013 Views
wrong - 20/11/2012 04:48:50 PM 941 Views
My bad. Mized up 1/3 and 2/3. - 20/11/2012 05:05:05 PM 1056 Views
gotcha *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:46:21 PM 632 Views
Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 03:18:55 PM 1031 Views
Huh? How did you come to that conclusion? - 20/11/2012 04:40:56 PM 1036 Views
Exactly *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:55:28 PM 983 Views
BEcause Cadsuane is close on the heels of Egwene? - 20/11/2012 05:10:50 PM 937 Views
I'm not arguing that. I agree that Cadsuane is pretty close to Egwene - 20/11/2012 05:50:34 PM 1049 Views
Re: Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 05:00:47 PM 946 Views
Interesting, but let's go with your figures... - 19/11/2012 06:54:54 AM 1064 Views
Indeed - 19/11/2012 08:16:44 AM 1120 Views
Rand is sort of a special case - 20/11/2012 04:25:02 AM 984 Views
Regarding Mesaana... - 20/11/2012 08:42:56 AM 1021 Views
You continue to mix two things - 20/11/2012 03:24:44 PM 945 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM 1179 Views
You are mistaken - 20/11/2012 05:04:40 PM 1032 Views
Yes she did Darius! - 20/11/2012 05:27:36 PM 956 Views
Yet there is no duel - 20/11/2012 06:01:17 PM 960 Views
Explain the .3xSD thing to me... - 19/11/2012 04:58:57 PM 1192 Views
Probably, but the AS have no idea what 37.5% means - 19/11/2012 02:59:26 AM 983 Views
It's irrelevant - 19/11/2012 03:46:42 AM 1054 Views
Agreed. Daigian is the marker of the absolute bottom of Aes Sedai strength. - 19/11/2012 06:55:41 AM 1021 Views
Daigian - 19/11/2012 08:12:19 AM 1030 Views
It is a direct marker due to RJ's quote - 19/11/2012 08:50:26 AM 1048 Views
You missed my point - 19/11/2012 09:08:42 AM 974 Views
Re: You missed my point - 19/11/2012 02:18:33 PM 1062 Views
Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 04:41:11 AM 990 Views
Re: Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 09:07:49 AM 981 Views
Which would make an average AS around a 30 - 20/11/2012 04:58:56 PM 870 Views
Re: Sure you can - 19/11/2012 09:22:09 AM 1109 Views
Care to explain this... - 19/11/2012 05:06:28 PM 937 Views
Indeed - 20/11/2012 07:16:37 AM 1138 Views
Explained far better than I ever could. Bravo. - 20/11/2012 07:30:29 AM 991 Views
Well duh. - 20/11/2012 02:57:24 PM 1100 Views
Incorrect. - 20/11/2012 04:28:07 PM 1088 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:44:16 PM 1073 Views
Re: No - 20/11/2012 04:48:36 PM 1049 Views
That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:18:46 PM 920 Views
Re: That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:31:03 PM 1339 Views
You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 02:55:06 PM 1046 Views
Re: You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 04:37:57 PM 1097 Views
It matters. - 20/11/2012 05:22:40 PM 1058 Views
We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 04:44:24 AM 886 Views
Re: We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 07:02:47 AM 1095 Views
You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 03:10:09 PM 964 Views
Re: You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 04:29:40 PM 1019 Views
Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:45:42 PM 1101 Views
Re: Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:49:54 PM 1255 Views
Why? - 20/11/2012 05:23:29 PM 1054 Views
Re: Why? - 20/11/2012 05:36:45 PM 1233 Views
Well... - 18/11/2012 08:43:59 PM 1095 Views
Re: Well... - 19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM 1074 Views
Wow. - 19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM 1100 Views
Re: Wow. - 19/11/2012 04:26:09 PM 1120 Views
Some points - 19/11/2012 06:03:00 PM 1161 Views
Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 06:09:36 PM 1005 Views
Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM 877 Views
this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 04:51:20 AM 1098 Views
Agreed - 20/11/2012 08:13:37 AM 1137 Views
probably - 20/11/2012 06:18:45 PM 998 Views
Re: this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 02:45:18 PM 1007 Views
I think RJ went out of his way to keep strength a bit of a mystery - 20/11/2012 08:42:44 PM 1016 Views
Indeed... - 21/11/2012 05:44:18 PM 991 Views
I agree - 22/11/2012 01:43:02 AM 1237 Views
Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 21/11/2012 05:12:24 PM 1035 Views
the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 02:55:03 AM 1081 Views
Re: the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 03:15:33 AM 1402 Views
I do not think you can calculate the Mean without knowing the Units of Power - 22/11/2012 03:53:59 AM 1166 Views
Re: Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 23/11/2012 02:59:12 PM 1308 Views
Disregard this post *NM* - 23/11/2012 03:02:24 PM 879 Views

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