Re: Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain
DomA Send a noteboard - 12/11/2012 09:30:57 PM
About Nesta/Harine we'll leave it at that. I understand now better why you interpret it the way you do, but I don't agree with your interpretation.
There's a reason why they never did that. That's claiming territory, with all the diplomatic risks it entails, and they would have had to fortify and defend those enclaves, and the roads leading to it, many of which they'd have to build and keep in shape. A trade enclave in the middle of nowhere would have been a magnet for bandits. All very costly. By buying land in the middle of nations, close to big cities with established trade networks, the SF benefit from all this for free, merely having to protect their own goods and the welfare of people coming to trade there.
There's no indication Elayne knew anything about the other enclaves. She would very likely have mentionned this if she knew, and measure all the implications better.
Elayne believed Andor would benefit because a lot more SF goods would enter the Westlands directly through Andor to be traded in the North and in Murandy, attracting foreign traders to Andor who would pay taxes to the Crown to get those goods out of the enclave. Merchants from Arafel or Shienar or Tar Valon would no longer need to go to Tear or Bandar Eban for SF goods, they'd go down the Erinin to Aringill and save a lot of money, and Andor would have its share.
But she got manipulated into accepting that goods not entering Andor, just the enclave, wouldn't be taxed.
Merchants will come trade goods in the enclave and the SF will open a gateway to the destination of their choice and merchants will pay the taxes to their own country only, and Andor will get nothing at all. The goods will never enter Andor, no more than the goods the SF buy in Shienar or Arafel will ever enter Andor, they'll pick them at the source, Travel to the enclave and put them on their ships.
All Elayne got out of the deal is cheaper SF goods for the Andoran internal market, losing in the bargain most of the foreign trade that used to transit through Andor, to the benefice of the Crown, Andoran traders, and all the businesses making most of their trade on the travels of foreign merchants (inns etc.). Or it did that, her deal with the Kin completely changed the game again, she just has to offer better deals than the SF (not very hard!) for trading in Andor and to begin sending her traders to the source of various goods. Andorans won't buy silk from SF anymore, Elayne will send her traders to Shara by gateway, just as in the days Cairhienin merchants could do this (and lost 20 years ago, destroying a lot of their wealth) and Andor will compete directly with the SF as a source of silk. Of silk and tons of things only the SF could offer. She screwed Zaida back, her enclave will be nowhere as lucrative as she believed, all the less since Elayne has very close alliances with the booming TR, Ghealdan, and she is Queen of Cairhien.
Zaida's Bargain was viewed as favorable because she got the land without giving up much of anything, essentially labor. In fact, they could have found a spot outside of Andor along the river to set up a trade enclave and still used Traveling to great effect.
There's a reason why they never did that. That's claiming territory, with all the diplomatic risks it entails, and they would have had to fortify and defend those enclaves, and the roads leading to it, many of which they'd have to build and keep in shape. A trade enclave in the middle of nowhere would have been a magnet for bandits. All very costly. By buying land in the middle of nations, close to big cities with established trade networks, the SF benefit from all this for free, merely having to protect their own goods and the welfare of people coming to trade there.
Elayne isn't actually all that wrong about the enclaves. In order to trade inside of Andor the goods will eventually have to enter Andor from the Enclave and will eventually be subject to taxes. Traveling doesn't change that, all it does is make transportation faster and easier.
There's no indication Elayne knew anything about the other enclaves. She would very likely have mentionned this if she knew, and measure all the implications better.
Elayne believed Andor would benefit because a lot more SF goods would enter the Westlands directly through Andor to be traded in the North and in Murandy, attracting foreign traders to Andor who would pay taxes to the Crown to get those goods out of the enclave. Merchants from Arafel or Shienar or Tar Valon would no longer need to go to Tear or Bandar Eban for SF goods, they'd go down the Erinin to Aringill and save a lot of money, and Andor would have its share.
But she got manipulated into accepting that goods not entering Andor, just the enclave, wouldn't be taxed.
Merchants will come trade goods in the enclave and the SF will open a gateway to the destination of their choice and merchants will pay the taxes to their own country only, and Andor will get nothing at all. The goods will never enter Andor, no more than the goods the SF buy in Shienar or Arafel will ever enter Andor, they'll pick them at the source, Travel to the enclave and put them on their ships.
All Elayne got out of the deal is cheaper SF goods for the Andoran internal market, losing in the bargain most of the foreign trade that used to transit through Andor, to the benefice of the Crown, Andoran traders, and all the businesses making most of their trade on the travels of foreign merchants (inns etc.). Or it did that, her deal with the Kin completely changed the game again, she just has to offer better deals than the SF (not very hard!) for trading in Andor and to begin sending her traders to the source of various goods. Andorans won't buy silk from SF anymore, Elayne will send her traders to Shara by gateway, just as in the days Cairhienin merchants could do this (and lost 20 years ago, destroying a lot of their wealth) and Andor will compete directly with the SF as a source of silk. Of silk and tons of things only the SF could offer. She screwed Zaida back, her enclave will be nowhere as lucrative as she believed, all the less since Elayne has very close alliances with the booming TR, Ghealdan, and she is Queen of Cairhien.
[Mik's Warp] - Demandred is.....*click to find out*
05/11/2012 01:06:42 PM
- 2751 Views
There are only 2 months left before AMOL comes out (or less)...
05/11/2012 02:10:07 PM
- 1307 Views
Re: There are only 2 months left before AMOL comes out (or less)...
06/11/2012 12:40:54 PM
- 1195 Views
I say Roederan is a better choice simply because of where he is located
06/11/2012 11:01:28 PM
- 1106 Views
Re: I say Roederan is a better choice simply because of where he is located
07/11/2012 09:42:00 AM
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Plausible, albeit antilclimactic *NM*
05/11/2012 06:32:38 PM
- 613 Views
Unless Mat is Demandred, at this point it will be anticlimactic. *NM*
06/11/2012 04:02:38 AM
- 572 Views
You've tried too hard...
05/11/2012 07:53:41 PM
- 2818 Views
Will be so disappointed if the Shadow's greatest (non-crazy) leader is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky
05/11/2012 08:57:59 PM
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I doubt Mat will kill him personally but
05/11/2012 09:24:48 PM
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I don't know
06/11/2012 02:01:41 AM
- 912 Views
My prediction of how it plays out...
06/11/2012 07:12:15 AM
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I don't think that's likely
06/11/2012 06:04:55 PM
- 969 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely
06/11/2012 11:21:21 PM
- 907 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely
07/11/2012 08:14:28 PM
- 1035 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely
07/11/2012 09:05:07 PM
- 1138 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely
08/11/2012 05:52:16 PM
- 952 Views
It sounds like we're at the same stage of vision of the AOL
08/11/2012 07:48:17 PM
- 907 Views
Statistics refute some of that...
09/11/2012 07:35:59 AM
- 917 Views
We're not talking about the same things...
09/11/2012 11:31:12 PM
- 900 Views
The real question is how much of that was caused by the Bore and the Collapse
09/11/2012 11:50:20 PM
- 945 Views
It doesn't mean no one in this Age can be at Talented or Intelligent.
09/11/2012 11:43:26 PM
- 1096 Views
Re: It doesn't mean no one in this Age can be at Talented or Intelligent.
10/11/2012 07:34:34 AM
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You're putting the Evil on a pedestal.
06/11/2012 03:12:38 AM
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... is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky
06/11/2012 08:45:02 PM
- 1060 Views
Mat is essentially the man (men) who wrote the books Demandred studied
06/11/2012 10:42:40 PM
- 889 Views
I didn't try hard at all; Demandred found me...
06/11/2012 03:31:41 PM
- 1068 Views
My biggest contention with Demandred being with the Sea Folk
06/11/2012 10:54:50 PM
- 1039 Views
Re: My biggest contention with Demandred being with the Sea Folk
07/11/2012 12:07:02 AM
- 1090 Views
Well, it instantly gives the Shadow access to attacking every coastal city...
07/11/2012 10:32:23 AM
- 964 Views
If he married Nynaeve and Moiraine he'd have his wives at Rand's side in the Pit too....
07/11/2012 03:28:38 PM
- 933 Views
I find that approach unnecessarily convoluted. Just hit them with 1 billion Trollocs and crush them.
08/11/2012 07:00:36 AM
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May I ask some practical questions?
08/11/2012 05:28:41 PM
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Re: May I ask some practical questions?
08/11/2012 10:35:38 PM
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Re: May I ask some practical questions?
10/11/2012 12:09:15 AM
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Re: May I ask some practical questions?
10/11/2012 03:11:59 AM
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LOL ... Seems more than a little far fetched *NM*
10/11/2012 06:17:34 AM
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Well, they hadn't planned on them being Traveling grounds as they didn't know about
09/11/2012 02:57:16 PM
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Re: Well, they hadn't planned on them being Traveling grounds as they didn't know about
09/11/2012 09:03:14 PM
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I know. I'm saying they were not doing this with Traveling in mind.
09/11/2012 11:57:34 PM
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Re: I know. I'm saying they were not doing this with Traveling in mind.
10/11/2012 10:08:04 PM
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I see what you are getting at ... And I see how Zaida used it to her advantage
11/11/2012 07:45:19 AM
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Re: I see what you are getting at ... And I see how Zaida used it to her advantage
12/11/2012 02:57:08 PM
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Nesta sent 2 ambassadors to the Coramoor. Both looking for the same thing
12/11/2012 04:11:50 PM
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Re: Nesta sent 2 ambassadors to the Coramoor. Both looking for the same thing
12/11/2012 06:01:33 PM
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Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain
12/11/2012 06:51:24 PM
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Re: Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain
12/11/2012 09:30:57 PM
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Not to belabor the point
12/11/2012 10:56:39 PM
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Re: Not to belabor the point
13/11/2012 12:46:21 AM
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I think you are way off base on the economics
13/11/2012 01:24:35 AM
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