Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 12/11/2012 06:51:24 PM
And she points out that it was Nesta who she is accountable to on this.
A Crown of Swords
Chapter 34
Ta’veren
"Yes, but there is the matter of the Bargain." That word was plainly capitalized in Harine's tone. "The Jendai Prophecy says you will bring us to glory, and all the seas of the world will be ours. As we give to you, you must give to us. If I do not make the Bargain well, Nesta will hang me naked in the rigging by my ankles and call the First Twelve of Clan Shodein to name a new Wavemistress." A look of utter horror stole across her face as those words came out of her mouth, and her black eyes went wider and wider by the word with disbelief. Her Windfinder goggled at her, and Derah and Taval tried so hard not to, their eyes fastened to the table, that it seemed their faces might break.
I bring up the previous Bargain with Nesta because Zaida didn't actually get Traveling, she used the knowledge as her leverage to get the LAND she wanted. The Sea Folk want land throughout the world so they can expand their trading empire beyond the coasts, with or without Traveling this has been something they bargained for, Harine's Bargain gives us plenty of evidence that they wanted it before Traveling and the wording makes it clear that it was a broader mandate than her one clan. She used the authority of the MotS to bind the entire SF people. Something I very much doubt she could have done without prior authorization which leads to Nesta giving the order to secure the land as what they wanted from the Bargain. Harine made a Bargain she knew she would get punished for in order to obtain it, but realistically her Bargain is vastly more far reaching than Zaida's as it also give the SF land in Tear, Illian and Arad Doman as well as Cairhein. Her concessions are the problem.
Zaida's Bargain was viewed as favorable because she got the land without giving up much of anything, essentially labor. In fact, they could have found a spot outside of Andor along the river to set up a trade enclave and still used Traveling to great effect, but they want land close to the major cities to make trade easier. Zaida managed this with a minimum cost to her people and secured a strong alliance with the most powerful nation in the region.
Elayne isn't actually all that wrong about the enclaves. In order to trade inside of Andor the goods will eventually have to enter Andor from the Enclave and will eventually be subject to taxes. Traveling doesn't change that, all it does is make transportation faster and easier. Certainly the Sea Folk will have enormous profits from the enclaves, but the governments of these nations also stand to profit from both tax revenue as well as diversification of goods.
A Crown of Swords
Chapter 34
Ta’veren
"Yes, but there is the matter of the Bargain." That word was plainly capitalized in Harine's tone. "The Jendai Prophecy says you will bring us to glory, and all the seas of the world will be ours. As we give to you, you must give to us. If I do not make the Bargain well, Nesta will hang me naked in the rigging by my ankles and call the First Twelve of Clan Shodein to name a new Wavemistress." A look of utter horror stole across her face as those words came out of her mouth, and her black eyes went wider and wider by the word with disbelief. Her Windfinder goggled at her, and Derah and Taval tried so hard not to, their eyes fastened to the table, that it seemed their faces might break.
I bring up the previous Bargain with Nesta because Zaida didn't actually get Traveling, she used the knowledge as her leverage to get the LAND she wanted. The Sea Folk want land throughout the world so they can expand their trading empire beyond the coasts, with or without Traveling this has been something they bargained for, Harine's Bargain gives us plenty of evidence that they wanted it before Traveling and the wording makes it clear that it was a broader mandate than her one clan. She used the authority of the MotS to bind the entire SF people. Something I very much doubt she could have done without prior authorization which leads to Nesta giving the order to secure the land as what they wanted from the Bargain. Harine made a Bargain she knew she would get punished for in order to obtain it, but realistically her Bargain is vastly more far reaching than Zaida's as it also give the SF land in Tear, Illian and Arad Doman as well as Cairhein. Her concessions are the problem.
Zaida's Bargain was viewed as favorable because she got the land without giving up much of anything, essentially labor. In fact, they could have found a spot outside of Andor along the river to set up a trade enclave and still used Traveling to great effect, but they want land close to the major cities to make trade easier. Zaida managed this with a minimum cost to her people and secured a strong alliance with the most powerful nation in the region.
Elayne isn't actually all that wrong about the enclaves. In order to trade inside of Andor the goods will eventually have to enter Andor from the Enclave and will eventually be subject to taxes. Traveling doesn't change that, all it does is make transportation faster and easier. Certainly the Sea Folk will have enormous profits from the enclaves, but the governments of these nations also stand to profit from both tax revenue as well as diversification of goods.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
[Mik's Warp] - Demandred is.....*click to find out*
05/11/2012 01:06:42 PM
- 2735 Views
There are only 2 months left before AMOL comes out (or less)...
05/11/2012 02:10:07 PM
- 1294 Views
Re: There are only 2 months left before AMOL comes out (or less)...
06/11/2012 12:40:54 PM
- 1184 Views
I say Roederan is a better choice simply because of where he is located
06/11/2012 11:01:28 PM
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Re: I say Roederan is a better choice simply because of where he is located
07/11/2012 09:42:00 AM
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Plausible, albeit antilclimactic *NM*
05/11/2012 06:32:38 PM
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Unless Mat is Demandred, at this point it will be anticlimactic. *NM*
06/11/2012 04:02:38 AM
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You've tried too hard...
05/11/2012 07:53:41 PM
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Will be so disappointed if the Shadow's greatest (non-crazy) leader is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky
05/11/2012 08:57:59 PM
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I doubt Mat will kill him personally but
05/11/2012 09:24:48 PM
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I don't know
06/11/2012 02:01:41 AM
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My prediction of how it plays out...
06/11/2012 07:12:15 AM
- 996 Views
I don't think that's likely
06/11/2012 06:04:55 PM
- 958 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely
06/11/2012 11:21:21 PM
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Re: I don't think that's likely
07/11/2012 08:14:28 PM
- 1018 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely
07/11/2012 09:05:07 PM
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Re: I don't think that's likely
08/11/2012 05:52:16 PM
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It sounds like we're at the same stage of vision of the AOL
08/11/2012 07:48:17 PM
- 894 Views
Statistics refute some of that...
09/11/2012 07:35:59 AM
- 904 Views
We're not talking about the same things...
09/11/2012 11:31:12 PM
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The real question is how much of that was caused by the Bore and the Collapse
09/11/2012 11:50:20 PM
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It doesn't mean no one in this Age can be at Talented or Intelligent.
09/11/2012 11:43:26 PM
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Re: It doesn't mean no one in this Age can be at Talented or Intelligent.
10/11/2012 07:34:34 AM
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You're putting the Evil on a pedestal.
06/11/2012 03:12:38 AM
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... is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky
06/11/2012 08:45:02 PM
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Mat is essentially the man (men) who wrote the books Demandred studied
06/11/2012 10:42:40 PM
- 877 Views
I didn't try hard at all; Demandred found me...
06/11/2012 03:31:41 PM
- 1056 Views
My biggest contention with Demandred being with the Sea Folk
06/11/2012 10:54:50 PM
- 1026 Views
Re: My biggest contention with Demandred being with the Sea Folk
07/11/2012 12:07:02 AM
- 1075 Views
Well, it instantly gives the Shadow access to attacking every coastal city...
07/11/2012 10:32:23 AM
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If he married Nynaeve and Moiraine he'd have his wives at Rand's side in the Pit too....
07/11/2012 03:28:38 PM
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I find that approach unnecessarily convoluted. Just hit them with 1 billion Trollocs and crush them.
08/11/2012 07:00:36 AM
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May I ask some practical questions?
08/11/2012 05:28:41 PM
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Re: May I ask some practical questions?
08/11/2012 10:35:38 PM
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Re: May I ask some practical questions?
10/11/2012 12:09:15 AM
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Re: May I ask some practical questions?
10/11/2012 03:11:59 AM
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LOL ... Seems more than a little far fetched *NM*
10/11/2012 06:17:34 AM
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Well, they hadn't planned on them being Traveling grounds as they didn't know about
09/11/2012 02:57:16 PM
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Re: Well, they hadn't planned on them being Traveling grounds as they didn't know about
09/11/2012 09:03:14 PM
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I know. I'm saying they were not doing this with Traveling in mind.
09/11/2012 11:57:34 PM
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Re: I know. I'm saying they were not doing this with Traveling in mind.
10/11/2012 10:08:04 PM
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I see what you are getting at ... And I see how Zaida used it to her advantage
11/11/2012 07:45:19 AM
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Re: I see what you are getting at ... And I see how Zaida used it to her advantage
12/11/2012 02:57:08 PM
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Nesta sent 2 ambassadors to the Coramoor. Both looking for the same thing
12/11/2012 04:11:50 PM
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Re: Nesta sent 2 ambassadors to the Coramoor. Both looking for the same thing
12/11/2012 06:01:33 PM
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Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain
12/11/2012 06:51:24 PM
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Re: Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain
12/11/2012 09:30:57 PM
- 910 Views
Not to belabor the point
12/11/2012 10:56:39 PM
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Re: Not to belabor the point
13/11/2012 12:46:21 AM
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I think you are way off base on the economics
13/11/2012 01:24:35 AM
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