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Re: I applaud your effort, but to be honest I just can't see it DomA Send a noteboard - 07/11/2012 08:36:34 PM
Demandred with the SF has several weaknesses.

1. They aren't a relevant military force
2. They have been split up since KoD to delivery supplies where Demandred seems to be in the middle of a consolidation
3. They are not strategically well placed at the moment
4. They are a Naval force with no one to fight

Even if Demandred isn't Roedran, I have a hard time seeing him being among the Sea Folk. I think what you have put forward is for the most part well reasoned and solid, but RJ always had a purpose for where he placed characters and Demandred among the Sea Folk seems to lack that ... Nearly all of the Forsaken (Semirhage, Mesaana, Rahvin, Be'lal, Sammael, Graendal, Aran'gar, Osan'gar) were attached to major Political/Ruling bodies, those that were not (Moghedien, Asmodean, Lanfear, Ishamael)directly involved themselves with Rand and company (or in the case of Moghedien Nynaeve).

Demandred is clearly not working an angle with any of the main cast of characters or he would have been spotted by now (either by the readers or Graendal who keeps tabs on the TR group). That leaves us with limited options to pin him down.

1. Roedran
2. Borderlanders
3. Seanchan
4. Sea Folk
5. Aiel

There don't seem to be any good candidates among the Aiel, Borderlanders or the Seanchan since RJ and BSand ruled out anyone who has appeared "on camera" prior to AMoL ... which IMO also rules out Amel who, did have a cameo, even if a brief one.

Roedran is well placed strategically and with a consolidated Murrandy has a significant power base to open hostilities ... Andor is in a weakened state thanks to the Trolloc's invasion, which Demandred can make worse by provoking a conflict with the Seanchan. Even if you throw out a human army, He is in a prime location as Roedran to direct armies of Trollocs coming out of the Ways all throughout the continent.

Personally I think Demandred having an alter-ego is kind of lame, he doesn't need it at this stage in the books and it would be much more interesting to me if he simply appeared with dozens of Trolloc Hoards coming from various Waygates to smash the southlands.


I would not be surprised he still has the real Roedran under compulsion and well hidden (well away from Lugard, accessible only by Gateway), and he replaces him with a MoM only for important tasks, happy to let the real Roedran have his parties and whatnot. If Demandred is Roedran, he played this right. He's been patient, didn't have some great noble appear to openly gain influence as Sammael, Rahvin and Be'lal all did. He took his time to study Roedran to be able to replace him, and worked to make his "evolution" of personality happen smoothly, as if Roedran was maturing or naturally changing, coming into his own. He's kept Murandy totally out of anything until the AS's presence offered him the opportunity to hire the Band and have a credible, not too suspicious way to unite his nobles around him and "secure his rule". It was convenient, but he had an alternative which was to wait for the Seanchan to mass armies at his borders... He even made sure to let the Band go.

RJ was clever, but the clues are there Roedran has changed, and not all that hidden. It showed up in both the Rebel and Succession storyline, in small touches. The Rebel AS perhaps sent him an embassy as they did with other rulers around, but RJ made sure never to attract our attention on it (they are almost certainly not BA, if they exist. Demandred simply use them to report there's nothing to report, but it looks like there's no Rebel or WT embassy in Lugard, and no advisor). "Roedred" is an old theory, which only gained strength with KOD and Talmanes but that had been around since he hired the Band or so. It just took forever for credible theories as to why Demandred would have any interest in replacing King Roedran and gain himself an army of Murandians, of all things, to emerge. Mine's not the only one (probably not the first either), but most of those I find credible center on Demandred using the Murandians as proxies, not at all as "his army".

Demandred can't have any army turn to the Shadow. If he doesn't have an army of DF like Taim has, then the army of the Light he controls has to be fooled in fighting armies of the Light, and the most harmful such conflict Demandred could engineer is one with the Seanchan, which happen to fit with the geography, his recent dealing with Elayne and it used to be complementary plans of Mesaana and Semirhage. (the other believable option is some plans for Andor, but I found those weaker).

It's not that the theory of the OP is bad, as far as tracking the identity goes, but it hits the same wall the Roedran theories did a few years ago: we can't see a plan in there, except impossible stuff like ordering the SF to attack Tear, Illian and Bandar Eban. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist (though I agree with you Amel himself is ruled out by his cameo), but until someone comes up with a solid and credible way in which Demandred could use the Sea Folk (as it needs to be as proxies, there's no way to make them fight the Light except the Seanchan and they're no match for them on their own, nor located for it) Demandred with the SF is not credible.












This message last edited by DomA on 07/11/2012 at 08:39:46 PM
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[Mik's Warp] - Demandred is.....*click to find out* - 05/11/2012 01:06:42 PM 2861 Views
There are only 2 months left before AMOL comes out (or less)... - 05/11/2012 02:10:07 PM 1351 Views
Nah.. forget that - 05/11/2012 08:29:53 PM 1224 Views
Re: Nah.. forget that - 05/11/2012 10:07:46 PM 1087 Views
Re: There are only 2 months left before AMOL comes out (or less)... - 06/11/2012 12:40:54 PM 1265 Views
I'm not saying it's not a well-reasoned theory; it is. - 06/11/2012 06:02:36 PM 1296 Views
I say Roederan is a better choice simply because of where he is located - 06/11/2012 11:01:28 PM 1184 Views
Re: I say Roederan is a better choice simply because of where he is located - 07/11/2012 09:42:00 AM 1451 Views
I applaud your effort, but to be honest I just can't see it - 07/11/2012 04:48:17 PM 1050 Views
Re: I applaud your effort, but to be honest I just can't see it - 07/11/2012 08:36:34 PM 1315 Views
There has been a lot of waste in WOT..... - 06/11/2012 06:26:56 PM 1003 Views
LIKE! *NM* - 09/12/2012 02:37:49 PM 1072 Views
Whoops *NM* - 06/11/2012 07:27:06 PM 583 Views
Plausible, albeit antilclimactic *NM* - 05/11/2012 06:32:38 PM 645 Views
Unless Mat is Demandred, at this point it will be anticlimactic. *NM* - 06/11/2012 04:02:38 AM 601 Views
That would be EPIC *NM* - 06/11/2012 07:53:30 PM 610 Views
That would be EPIC *NM* - 06/11/2012 07:53:31 PM 608 Views
You've tried too hard... - 05/11/2012 07:53:41 PM 2910 Views
Will be so disappointed if the Shadow's greatest (non-crazy) leader is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky - 05/11/2012 08:57:59 PM 1203 Views
I doubt Mat will kill him personally but - 05/11/2012 09:24:48 PM 976 Views
I don't know - 06/11/2012 02:01:41 AM 997 Views
My prediction of how it plays out... - 06/11/2012 07:12:15 AM 1086 Views
I don't think that's likely - 06/11/2012 06:04:55 PM 1052 Views
LOL ... it will be a saying in the next Age - 06/11/2012 10:36:04 PM 987 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 06/11/2012 11:21:21 PM 998 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 07/11/2012 08:14:28 PM 1116 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 07/11/2012 09:05:07 PM 1215 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 08/11/2012 05:52:16 PM 1027 Views
It sounds like we're at the same stage of vision of the AOL - 08/11/2012 07:48:17 PM 986 Views
Statistics refute some of that... - 09/11/2012 07:35:59 AM 999 Views
We're not talking about the same things... - 09/11/2012 11:31:12 PM 976 Views
It doesn't mean no one in this Age can be at Talented or Intelligent. - 09/11/2012 11:43:26 PM 1180 Views
Re: It doesn't mean no one in this Age can be at Talented or Intelligent. - 10/11/2012 07:34:34 AM 1086 Views
You seriously believe that? - 10/11/2012 04:17:09 PM 1013 Views
Mat has grown quiet a bit since those days - 06/11/2012 01:55:48 AM 1165 Views
You're putting the Evil on a pedestal. - 06/11/2012 03:12:38 AM 905 Views
No, just desperately trying to raise the stakes a bit... - 06/11/2012 07:00:59 AM 1061 Views
That's essentially what I was saying - 06/11/2012 03:35:45 PM 1177 Views
hmmm - 06/11/2012 10:27:00 AM 1292 Views
... is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky - 06/11/2012 08:45:02 PM 1143 Views
Mat is essentially the man (men) who wrote the books Demandred studied - 06/11/2012 10:42:40 PM 955 Views
Exactly... - 06/11/2012 11:45:36 PM 1130 Views
... is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky - 06/11/2012 08:45:29 PM 1174 Views
I didn't try hard at all; Demandred found me... - 06/11/2012 03:31:41 PM 1156 Views
My biggest contention with Demandred being with the Sea Folk - 06/11/2012 10:54:50 PM 1111 Views
Re: My biggest contention with Demandred being with the Sea Folk - 07/11/2012 12:07:02 AM 1172 Views
Well, it instantly gives the Shadow access to attacking every coastal city... - 07/11/2012 10:32:23 AM 1046 Views
Exactly! - 07/11/2012 10:54:14 AM 1590 Views
If he married Nynaeve and Moiraine he'd have his wives at Rand's side in the Pit too.... - 07/11/2012 03:28:38 PM 1020 Views
I find that approach unnecessarily convoluted. Just hit them with 1 billion Trollocs and crush them. - 08/11/2012 07:00:36 AM 1021 Views
Not likely he has that many... - 08/11/2012 03:00:32 PM 960 Views
May I ask some practical questions? - 08/11/2012 05:28:41 PM 948 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 08/11/2012 10:35:38 PM 1069 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 10/11/2012 12:09:15 AM 1007 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 10/11/2012 03:11:59 AM 990 Views
LOL ... Seems more than a little far fetched *NM* - 10/11/2012 06:17:34 AM 549 Views
Well you asked for an explanation - 13/11/2012 10:23:41 PM 912 Views
fair enough *NM* - 14/11/2012 01:31:52 AM 523 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 10/11/2012 07:15:58 PM 1047 Views
Exactly! - 11/11/2012 07:38:46 AM 1040 Views
Good practical questions... - 09/11/2012 07:24:14 AM 1047 Views
He doesn't need the SF for that - 09/11/2012 03:00:34 PM 825 Views
Well, they hadn't planned on them being Traveling grounds as they didn't know about - 09/11/2012 02:57:16 PM 878 Views
Re: Well, they hadn't planned on them being Traveling grounds as they didn't know about - 09/11/2012 09:03:14 PM 1008 Views
I know. I'm saying they were not doing this with Traveling in mind. - 09/11/2012 11:57:34 PM 969 Views
Re: I know. I'm saying they were not doing this with Traveling in mind. - 10/11/2012 10:08:04 PM 2525 Views
I see what you are getting at ... And I see how Zaida used it to her advantage - 11/11/2012 07:45:19 AM 1030 Views
Re: I see what you are getting at ... And I see how Zaida used it to her advantage - 12/11/2012 02:57:08 PM 1057 Views
Nesta sent 2 ambassadors to the Coramoor. Both looking for the same thing - 12/11/2012 04:11:50 PM 1080 Views
Re: Nesta sent 2 ambassadors to the Coramoor. Both looking for the same thing - 12/11/2012 06:01:33 PM 1164 Views
Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain - 12/11/2012 06:51:24 PM 1191 Views
Re: Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain - 12/11/2012 09:30:57 PM 997 Views
Not to belabor the point - 12/11/2012 10:56:39 PM 955 Views
Re: Not to belabor the point - 13/11/2012 12:46:21 AM 915 Views
I think you are way off base on the economics - 13/11/2012 01:24:35 AM 895 Views
Re: I think you are way off base on the economics - 13/11/2012 03:48:40 PM 995 Views
no reason to *NM* - 14/11/2012 01:35:55 AM 541 Views
I don't see the problem... - 07/11/2012 10:52:49 AM 1740 Views
This is preposterous - 07/11/2012 04:15:11 PM 1418 Views
Who? - 06/11/2012 07:29:46 PM 947 Views
Paah, he's clearly on the Isle of Madmen to the south. - 10/11/2012 03:28:26 AM 1356 Views

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