the Author laid it out as a fact of HIS universe. We have to live with it.
Accept the fact that the Forsaken are not that much stronger than everyone else ... as I've stated a million times, they don't HAVE to be ... raw power is nearly a meaningless conversation when the only facts we have are:
1. Lanfear is as strong as a woman can be
2. Morgase is as weak as a woman can be
This means there MUST be an equal number of SD between Morgase and the Mean as there are between Lanfear and the Mean, but it says NOTHING of actual amounts of the Power each level represents. The misstep here is that we are talking about % of total as the same thing as amount of power. Lanfear is 100% of the maximum strength, but can likely handle many hundreds of times the amount of Power Morgase can handle. Moiraine IMO can handle roughly half the volume of Lanfear, but that may not mean she is the Mean on a Bell Curve. She may well be as much higher from the evidence of those Stronger it's possible that she is several SDs above Mean.
3. Daigian MUST be stronger than about 40% of women and 30% of Men
4. Daigian can handle roughly 1/3 as much saidar as Moiraine
This says nothing about their relative places on the BC since we cannot reliably place either of them. IMO they are probably around the same distance from the Mean but that is purely speculation.
5. Egwene is roughly equal to Amys and Melaine combined.
This makes her somewhere along the lines of 1.75x Moiraine in terms of volume of saidar she can wield, but again, there is no way to know where she falls on the BC aside from the evidence in the books which makes her an outlier of more than 2 SD from the Mean. This also means that she is probably as rare as a woman like Alise or Sorilea who are also outliers on the weaker side of the Curve.
No math formula is going to magically make all of the tidbits we have work. But I will stick to the author's quote on the existence of a BC as he is in effect "god" in terms of WoT.
Accept the fact that the Forsaken are not that much stronger than everyone else ... as I've stated a million times, they don't HAVE to be ... raw power is nearly a meaningless conversation when the only facts we have are:
1. Lanfear is as strong as a woman can be
2. Morgase is as weak as a woman can be
This means there MUST be an equal number of SD between Morgase and the Mean as there are between Lanfear and the Mean, but it says NOTHING of actual amounts of the Power each level represents. The misstep here is that we are talking about % of total as the same thing as amount of power. Lanfear is 100% of the maximum strength, but can likely handle many hundreds of times the amount of Power Morgase can handle. Moiraine IMO can handle roughly half the volume of Lanfear, but that may not mean she is the Mean on a Bell Curve. She may well be as much higher from the evidence of those Stronger it's possible that she is several SDs above Mean.
3. Daigian MUST be stronger than about 40% of women and 30% of Men
4. Daigian can handle roughly 1/3 as much saidar as Moiraine
This says nothing about their relative places on the BC since we cannot reliably place either of them. IMO they are probably around the same distance from the Mean but that is purely speculation.
5. Egwene is roughly equal to Amys and Melaine combined.
This makes her somewhere along the lines of 1.75x Moiraine in terms of volume of saidar she can wield, but again, there is no way to know where she falls on the BC aside from the evidence in the books which makes her an outlier of more than 2 SD from the Mean. This also means that she is probably as rare as a woman like Alise or Sorilea who are also outliers on the weaker side of the Curve.
No math formula is going to magically make all of the tidbits we have work. But I will stick to the author's quote on the existence of a BC as he is in effect "god" in terms of WoT.
That post was all over the place, covering so many different arguments - from Forsaken strength, to varying jumps between levels to the Mean falling halfway between Morgase and Lanfear after all.
I don't think you know what you believe anymore.
It is very simple. If the Bell Curve does apply, it is not a linear, absolute scale. Mathematically that is impossible, given Daigian's comparative strength to Moiraine and Egwene, and her comparative closeness to the Mean (only 0.32SD below it).
If the Bell Curve does apply, it must be very similar to what Dreadlord has depicted in his post below, with each level relating to a non linear increase in strength.
If that is the case, then your and Fionwe's Bell Curve based arguments to try and prove channeler strength can be chucked in the bin.
Then we are back to merely going on the text from the books, which is fine by me.
Addressing problems with the Bell Curve
31/10/2012 11:30:42 AM
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Who said RJ created a 100 point scale? I always assumed we did to make this easier to follow
31/10/2012 02:22:51 PM
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One more point here
31/10/2012 03:02:34 PM
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I've think I've finally done it. I've solved the entire Curve. Daigian is the key...
01/11/2012 09:20:57 AM
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Did some playing with your numbers to make this work better
01/11/2012 02:13:00 PM
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The Mean and SD are set by Daigian's position. Your options are therefore not possible...
02/11/2012 07:49:24 AM
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Yet you have many more SD between the Mean and Lanfear than you do Morgase and the Mean
02/11/2012 02:39:51 PM
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I absolutely agree. The lower side of the curve MUST be intersected by zero after 1 SD...
02/11/2012 03:03:52 PM
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I am not convinced Moiraine is the Mean. Merely 50% of Lanfear
02/11/2012 04:23:57 PM
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But on a Bell Curve the Mean IS 50% of Lanfear. You've just disproven your own contention.
02/11/2012 04:40:31 PM
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OMG no it is NOT!
02/11/2012 05:16:36 PM
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I agree with that. But please honestly look at the math I presented. It disproves the Bell Curve.
02/11/2012 05:24:41 PM
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It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved.
02/11/2012 06:07:19 PM
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Confusing post...
02/11/2012 06:30:40 PM
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If you choose to ignore the author go right ahead. I just think you are wrong
02/11/2012 09:05:14 PM
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Re: It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved.
02/11/2012 07:11:57 PM
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I think the number is about 10
03/11/2012 08:42:08 AM
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Nope
03/11/2012 04:14:45 PM
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Re: Nope
03/11/2012 04:39:07 PM
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Verin and Graendal each have angreal of unkown strength
03/11/2012 06:15:49 PM
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Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve
01/11/2012 06:23:07 PM
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Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve
01/11/2012 09:48:04 PM
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I'll have to disagree with much of this
03/11/2012 07:46:31 AM
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Why do you always think Strength is the point
03/11/2012 04:35:26 PM
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I don't - I merely appreciate it as a factor
03/11/2012 04:48:24 PM
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0 Evidence? Cyndane v. Alivia is plenty of evidence EDIT with exact quote
03/11/2012 06:17:39 PM
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One other thing you have forgotten about
03/11/2012 10:13:09 PM
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Your agenda blinds you to logic yet again...As I'll simply demonstrate with your example here...
03/11/2012 11:08:13 PM
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Nope, the only experience she has in reality is against Rand
03/11/2012 11:09:54 PM
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Nonsense.
03/11/2012 11:11:05 PM
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Believe as you will
03/11/2012 11:26:50 PM
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That's a classic.
04/11/2012 12:06:13 AM
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You misquote on a regular basis and have no grasp of the timeline in the series
04/11/2012 01:36:37 AM
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Hmm...
04/11/2012 07:08:04 AM
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stop getting all indignant ... I'm really not trying to be nasty to you
04/11/2012 04:20:06 PM
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Reply to your EDIT: I think YOU have a totally warped perspective, based on what you wish for.
03/11/2012 11:16:29 PM
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Funny that's exactly how I see your perspective
03/11/2012 11:25:52 PM
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I don't need to interpret the following in any way other than the obvious to get the picture...
04/11/2012 12:17:53 AM
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as usual you miss that there is a timeline and strength growth throughout the series *NM*
04/11/2012 01:47:41 AM
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