But on a Bell Curve the Mean IS 50% of Lanfear. You've just disproven your own contention. - Edit 3
Before modification by Shannow at 02/11/2012 05:07:07 PM
You keep saying that Moiraine cannot be the Mean, and that's fine. I don't think she MUST be, in fact given the new Pevara quote I think it's likely that Moiraine is well above the Mean. I claim that she is about 45-50% of Lanfear, the Mean, could be around half that near 24-25, however, given a fixed max and min level and knowing Daigian must be stronger than about 30% of all Channelers lends credence to the Mean being much higher than you want to allow. T be honest I don't much care where the Mean actually falls, it's enough to know for fact that even Pevara's level is above it for Androl to consider her to be so strong.
Daigian at 16 makes her roughly 1/3 of Moiraine at 50 and allows for the right number of SD on BOTH sides of the Mean (3 up and 3 down). Your weakening of the AS to fit your notions of Forsaken godhood simply makes them outliers on the BC and ignores the fact that there should be as many Channelers on each side of the curve ... In your system we have the bottom part fully flushed out, but almost no one but massive outliers, like the Forsaken on the top half. That is not a Bell Curve. I shall dub it the Shannow Curvelike scale.
Your problem continues to be that you think raw power is what makes the Forsaken seem so strong. It's not. RJ made this abundantly clear throughout the series and in many interviews. Training/skill is what is most important in a match up. Moiraine at 50% of Lanfears strength would be CRUSHED in a duel. She'd not only be giving up Power, but to an even wider margin, skill. Lanfear at less than 1/2 of Alivia still held her own, why? SKILL. Egwene stood no chance at the docks not only because Lanfear was stronger, but because Lanfear was vastly more skilled. It wouldn't have mattered if Egwene was 10x Lanfear at that moment, Lanfear knew how to use her power to her own best advantage.
Again, I'll use the example of a PHD facing a child in a spelling bee. To take it a step further we'll say Lanfear v. Moiraine is like a PHD with a 200 IQ against a child with a 100 IQ ... Not much of a contest. Lanfear v. Alivia was a PHD with a 100 IQ facing a child with a 200+ IQ ... Makes it interesting, but in the end education held out over raw talent.
Only the AS in the entire series give any real note to strength other than a casual comment or a moment of surprise, which is why RJ created the 21 level list in the first place. Pretty much everyone stronger than Moiraine or weaker than Daigian don't much matter on that list IMO.
At any rate I'm tired of going in circles. I'll hold off on further commentary until someone brings a fresh perspective or we get new information from the books or author.
Daigian at 16 makes her roughly 1/3 of Moiraine at 50 and allows for the right number of SD on BOTH sides of the Mean (3 up and 3 down). Your weakening of the AS to fit your notions of Forsaken godhood simply makes them outliers on the BC and ignores the fact that there should be as many Channelers on each side of the curve ... In your system we have the bottom part fully flushed out, but almost no one but massive outliers, like the Forsaken on the top half. That is not a Bell Curve. I shall dub it the Shannow Curvelike scale.
Your problem continues to be that you think raw power is what makes the Forsaken seem so strong. It's not. RJ made this abundantly clear throughout the series and in many interviews. Training/skill is what is most important in a match up. Moiraine at 50% of Lanfears strength would be CRUSHED in a duel. She'd not only be giving up Power, but to an even wider margin, skill. Lanfear at less than 1/2 of Alivia still held her own, why? SKILL. Egwene stood no chance at the docks not only because Lanfear was stronger, but because Lanfear was vastly more skilled. It wouldn't have mattered if Egwene was 10x Lanfear at that moment, Lanfear knew how to use her power to her own best advantage.
Again, I'll use the example of a PHD facing a child in a spelling bee. To take it a step further we'll say Lanfear v. Moiraine is like a PHD with a 200 IQ against a child with a 100 IQ ... Not much of a contest. Lanfear v. Alivia was a PHD with a 100 IQ facing a child with a 200+ IQ ... Makes it interesting, but in the end education held out over raw talent.
Only the AS in the entire series give any real note to strength other than a casual comment or a moment of surprise, which is why RJ created the 21 level list in the first place. Pretty much everyone stronger than Moiraine or weaker than Daigian don't much matter on that list IMO.
At any rate I'm tired of going in circles. I'll hold off on further commentary until someone brings a fresh perspective or we get new information from the books or author.
The new breakthrough - thanks to Daigian - is that I can categorically disprove ANY strength figure you put to me.
Let's take your latest suggestion. Moiraine at 50 and the Mean at 25.
Firstly, if it is a true Bell Curve as you advocate, then the Mean IS 50% of Lanfear, meaning that if you put Moiraine at 50, she must be the Mean. So it is impossible to put her at 50 and the Mean at 25 if you still want to cling to the pure Bell Curve idea.
In fact, the only way to symmetrically allow for as many SD's above as below the Mean, is to make the Mean 50.
Hence, it is impossible for Moiraine to be at 50 and not be the Mean.
With the Daigian = 0.32SD formula - which is fact, given RJ's statement - the Bell Curve is disproven in any possible symmetrical form.
Do you see now?
EDIT
The above disproved it with logic. Now I will do so with maths.
If Daigian is 0.32SD, and if Moiraine is at least 3 times her strength, then let's apply your new suggestion to the formula:
Moiraine at 50, means Daigian at 16. You suggest the Mean at 25.
That means 25-16 = 9 = 0.32SD. That means the SD is about 27.
That means that the SD is more than the Mean of 25, meaning you hit 0 before you even get to 1 SD on the lower side! That's even more extreme than my suggestion.
I thought you said we must have room for as many SD's on the lower side as on the upper? But the math shows that this is impossible, under the above scenario.
As I said. I've cracked it. The Bell Curve is disproved in its purely symmetrical form.