It's only as skewed as it seems when you make the assumption that the Forsaken
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 31/10/2012 04:34:11 AM
are unnecessarily stronger than they need to be. You and Sidious obess with the strength level of the Forsaken. But Lanfear doesn't need to be 5x Moiraine to explain what she is capable of, we are shown this when she was able to fight Alivia to a stand still despite a massive strength difference and the differential the Paralis Net gave Alivia. Strength is not what sets the Forsaken apart from the modern Channelers, training is!
RJ noted the Forsaken don't measure themselves via Strength and we hear them deride the training of modern AS almost every time it comes up. Certainly they note great strength in women such as Elayne, Nyneave, Someryn etc, but they only worry about them when training becomes an issue ... As Graendal points out to Sammael.
I don't need a Bell Curve to see raw power is not the driver for the Forsaken's appearance of vast Power. I just need to see them in action. Graendal's ability with Compulsion is among the most potent abilities in the series. With it she took on 2 other Forsaken and managed to come out on top. Semirhage didn't need huge volumes of Power to accomplish her deeds nor did Lanfear or Mesaana or any of the others. Certainly they are all close to the very top strength levels, but just as clearly there were dozens like them in the AoL who did not survive. They don't even need to be even significantly stronger than most AS to appear vastly more powerful. The training they have is far beyond what any AS can even dream of ... Couple that with being 2x the strongest AS and there is no way any AS or even most small circles could stand a chance beyond what we saw at the Cleansing. Each of the circles we saw there would have needed to be significantly stronger than an individual Forsaken to stand any chance, and none of them were more than 3 individuals and none of these individuals were of particularly significant strength, with the possible exception of Flinn.
In reality the Forsaken are probably no more than 25%-30% Stronger than Cadsuane who is 1.5x a Strong AS since she is around the same strength as Elza and Merise combined. But as Cadsuane notes most modern AS don't learn more than the standard AS weaves and almost never innovate or experiment. Mean while the Forsaken are among the most well trained individuals who ever lived. They don't need massive strength advantages to be practically gods in comparison to an AS. I see their training as the major differentiator. It is like having a PHD in English face off with a 2nd grader in a spelling bee. It's not just the IQ score you'd think about there.
RJ noted the Forsaken don't measure themselves via Strength and we hear them deride the training of modern AS almost every time it comes up. Certainly they note great strength in women such as Elayne, Nyneave, Someryn etc, but they only worry about them when training becomes an issue ... As Graendal points out to Sammael.
I don't need a Bell Curve to see raw power is not the driver for the Forsaken's appearance of vast Power. I just need to see them in action. Graendal's ability with Compulsion is among the most potent abilities in the series. With it she took on 2 other Forsaken and managed to come out on top. Semirhage didn't need huge volumes of Power to accomplish her deeds nor did Lanfear or Mesaana or any of the others. Certainly they are all close to the very top strength levels, but just as clearly there were dozens like them in the AoL who did not survive. They don't even need to be even significantly stronger than most AS to appear vastly more powerful. The training they have is far beyond what any AS can even dream of ... Couple that with being 2x the strongest AS and there is no way any AS or even most small circles could stand a chance beyond what we saw at the Cleansing. Each of the circles we saw there would have needed to be significantly stronger than an individual Forsaken to stand any chance, and none of them were more than 3 individuals and none of these individuals were of particularly significant strength, with the possible exception of Flinn.
In reality the Forsaken are probably no more than 25%-30% Stronger than Cadsuane who is 1.5x a Strong AS since she is around the same strength as Elza and Merise combined. But as Cadsuane notes most modern AS don't learn more than the standard AS weaves and almost never innovate or experiment. Mean while the Forsaken are among the most well trained individuals who ever lived. They don't need massive strength advantages to be practically gods in comparison to an AS. I see their training as the major differentiator. It is like having a PHD in English face off with a 2nd grader in a spelling bee. It's not just the IQ score you'd think about there.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 31/10/2012 at 04:47:57 AM
The Bell Curve revisited
- 29/10/2012 09:44:09 AM
1669 Views
Re: The Bell Curve revisited
- 29/10/2012 10:21:27 AM
1045 Views
That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:26:49 AM
1622 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:36:32 AM
1004 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:40:27 AM
872 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:42:57 AM
857 Views
Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:45:07 AM
961 Views
Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:49:49 AM
848 Views
Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:56:37 AM
936 Views
It's only as skewed as it seems when you make the assumption that the Forsaken
- 31/10/2012 04:34:11 AM
1187 Views
RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
- 29/10/2012 02:11:19 PM
948 Views
Re: RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
- 29/10/2012 02:37:33 PM
887 Views
there are dozens of reasons for this
- 29/10/2012 08:18:18 PM
902 Views
Re: there are dozens of reasons for this
- 29/10/2012 09:07:35 PM
857 Views
Again I don't argue that genetics play no role
- 30/10/2012 01:57:24 AM
836 Views
Once again just so,we are clear on my stance with Genetics and Strength
- 30/10/2012 03:27:11 PM
851 Views
That the 1000 Novices aren't a random sample of the population?
- 29/10/2012 08:23:47 PM
794 Views
And why would it be biased towards those with lower strength?
- 29/10/2012 09:11:25 PM
807 Views
Absolutely no reason...
- 30/10/2012 01:35:35 AM
900 Views
Re: Absolutely no reason...
- 30/10/2012 06:43:54 AM
804 Views
Only if it was a random sampling. Which this is not.
- 30/10/2012 01:58:34 PM
899 Views
That's exactly the point. I want you to explain why it wasn't random.
- 30/10/2012 02:14:59 PM
830 Views
It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
- 30/10/2012 02:43:03 PM
828 Views
Re: It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
- 30/10/2012 02:47:30 PM
826 Views
Go read a stats text will you?
- 30/10/2012 02:54:16 PM
816 Views
Done
- 31/10/2012 09:34:11 AM
1592 Views
You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
- 10/11/2012 10:14:19 PM
1106 Views
Re: You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
- 11/11/2012 11:37:16 AM
932 Views
Seriously? I went and looked at some statistics books, and you won't even reply?
- 01/11/2012 12:13:49 PM
926 Views
Yes that totally makes sense
- 30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM
940 Views
- 30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM
940 Views
That's not what happened...
- 30/10/2012 02:01:52 PM
883 Views
I hate to get into these things
- 29/10/2012 05:45:50 PM
979 Views
I would love for you to be right, because it would solve all our problems, but 0 is the challenge...
- 29/10/2012 07:56:34 PM
967 Views
In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
- 29/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
964 Views
Overwhelm Lanfear, not match her. *NM*
- 29/10/2012 08:26:09 PM
503 Views
Truth is, Moiraine was being overly optimistic...
- 29/10/2012 08:39:17 PM
878 Views
You're pathetic...
- 30/10/2012 01:20:01 AM
811 Views
The quote isn't specific
- 30/10/2012 08:32:36 AM
920 Views
Yet neither of them are at full potential and at least equal a Forsaken
- 30/10/2012 03:45:24 PM
1426 Views
Re: In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
- 29/10/2012 09:10:27 PM
879 Views
Lots of people mean perfectly normal distribution when they say it
- 30/10/2012 05:25:35 PM
820 Views
Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
- 30/10/2012 12:04:01 AM
1004 Views
Re: Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
- 30/10/2012 09:33:44 AM
938 Views
Are you sure about that?
- 30/10/2012 12:03:43 PM
927 Views
Re: Are you sure about that?
- 30/10/2012 12:19:34 PM
844 Views
That doesn't seem a coherent narrative to me
- 30/10/2012 04:26:25 PM
1185 Views
Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
- 30/10/2012 05:16:40 PM
953 Views
Re: Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
- 30/10/2012 05:54:41 PM
821 Views
We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
- 30/10/2012 10:33:55 PM
961 Views
Re: We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
- 31/10/2012 12:30:52 AM
915 Views
A handful of examples are all we have and we have proof that an extremely strong Channeler
- 31/10/2012 02:58:57 AM
807 Views
you're confusing 2 things
- 30/10/2012 04:27:32 AM
1100 Views
One thing
- 30/10/2012 05:23:17 PM
913 Views
That's the problem. The BC RJ has "built" has a minimum and a maximum value
- 30/10/2012 05:48:55 PM
923 Views
