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Re: We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers TheCrownless Send a noteboard - 31/10/2012 12:30:52 AM

And Tarna and Theodrin were both Wilders (meaning they had the Spark) and neither of them are in the very top tiers of AS strength, which shows the Spark is not linked to strength. In fact there are many AS who had the Spark and are weak, we just don't see a ton of them onscreen. But they must exist since there is a special classification for them within AS hierarchy and we hear from Verin how many women come to the Tower with "tricks".


I'm sorry but that's a leap too far for me. A few outliers are not sufficient to make that kind of claim, especially when Theodrin nor Tarna are 'weak' and virtually all of the channellers stronger than Nicola (on the female side) are born with the spark.

I assume most things RJ implemented are literary devices, which is probably why we get grey areas like this.


Given that Cadsuane is from Far Madding it's impossible to tell since she would never have Channeled naturally within the Guardians.

We know that Flinn is strong and he is not a Sparker nor is Grady or Neald, both strong males. In fact the ONLY male Sparker we know of in the BT is Narishma (aside from Taim and Logain) and we don't know how strong he is at this point. Again, RJ seemed to use the Spark for the strong main characters because if they were not born with the Spark they had no reason to leave the TR.

Immediately assuming Spark and strength go hand in hand is a flawed assumption since we know for fact that the Strongest woman we know of in AS world is Sharina and she is not a Sparker, while there are many Sparkers who are weaker. Tarna and Theodrin are specifically called out because they each came to the Tower with a Block, but there are clearly many others who are weaker or there would be no need to have special hierarchy rules for Wilders.


Again, single isolated examples (and one in Sharina who has serious question marks over exactly who she is and what her purpose is) isn't really evidence one way or the other. I've always gotten the impression from reading the books that a wilder has a much higher chance of being strong than someone who isn't born with the spark. The number and strength of wilders the tower has acquired over time is never really stated, other than the hand full we do know being reasonably strong as far as Aes Sedai go.
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The Bell Curve revisited Shannow - 29/10/2012 09:44:09 AM 1427 Views
Re: The Bell Curve revisited Tor - 29/10/2012 10:21:27 AM 818 Views
That's incorrect... Shannow - 29/10/2012 10:26:49 AM 1386 Views
Re: That's incorrect... Tor - 29/10/2012 10:36:32 AM 832 Views
Re: That's incorrect... Shannow - 29/10/2012 10:40:27 AM 681 Views
Re: That's incorrect... Tor - 29/10/2012 10:42:57 AM 677 Views
Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well... Shannow - 29/10/2012 10:45:07 AM 766 Views
Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well... Tor - 29/10/2012 10:49:49 AM 660 Views
Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well... Shannow - 29/10/2012 10:56:37 AM 745 Views
It's only as skewed as it seems when you make the assumption that the Forsaken darius_sedai - 31/10/2012 04:34:11 AM 956 Views
RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:11:19 PM 717 Views
Response to a few of your poorly researched points... Shannow - 29/10/2012 02:31:17 PM 695 Views
Re: RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right... Tor - 29/10/2012 02:37:33 PM 708 Views
Exactly... Shannow - 29/10/2012 02:39:30 PM 699 Views
there are dozens of reasons for this darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 08:18:18 PM 722 Views
Excellent point. fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:24:37 PM 750 Views
Re: there are dozens of reasons for this Tor - 29/10/2012 09:07:35 PM 650 Views
Again I don't argue that genetics play no role darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 01:57:24 AM 622 Views
Re: Again I don't argue that genetics play no role Tor - 30/10/2012 07:07:17 AM 654 Views
I don't think it plays much role in the plot darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:17:55 PM 797 Views
Once again just so,we are clear on my stance with Genetics and Strength darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:27:11 PM 672 Views
That the 1000 Novices aren't a random sample of the population? fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:23:47 PM 608 Views
And why would it be biased towards those with lower strength? Tor - 29/10/2012 09:11:25 PM 600 Views
Absolutely no reason... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:35:35 AM 712 Views
Re: Absolutely no reason... Tor - 30/10/2012 06:43:54 AM 609 Views
Only if it was a random sampling. Which this is not. fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:58:34 PM 686 Views
That's exactly the point. I want you to explain why it wasn't random. Tor - 30/10/2012 02:14:59 PM 614 Views
It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample! fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:43:03 PM 633 Views
Re: It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample! Tor - 30/10/2012 02:47:30 PM 635 Views
Go read a stats text will you? fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:54:16 PM 628 Views
Done Tor - 31/10/2012 09:34:11 AM 1300 Views
You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent... fionwe1987 - 10/11/2012 10:14:19 PM 880 Views
Re: You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent... Tor - 11/11/2012 11:37:16 AM 682 Views
Re: You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent... fionwe1987 - 11/11/2012 07:14:48 PM 574 Views
Re: You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent... Tor - 11/11/2012 08:33:59 PM 1322 Views
Re: You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent... Tor - 11/11/2012 08:43:19 PM 839 Views
Seriously? I went and looked at some statistics books, and you won't even reply? Tor - 01/11/2012 12:13:49 PM 659 Views
Still nothing? Tor - 10/11/2012 03:33:15 PM 639 Views
Still doesn't explain the difference Praziquantel - 30/10/2012 07:01:53 PM 577 Views
Re: Still doesn't explain the difference fionwe1987 - 10/11/2012 10:21:00 PM 660 Views
Yes that totally makes sense Sidious - 30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM 751 Views
Thank you! *NM* Tor - 30/10/2012 10:19:15 AM 345 Views
That's not what happened... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:01:52 PM 669 Views
Re: That's not what happened... Tor - 30/10/2012 02:15:57 PM 627 Views
Who said it would? fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:44:17 PM 641 Views
let's not mix up "random" and "representative" darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 05:28:09 PM 689 Views
Doesn't mean RJ applied it to his series Sidious - 30/10/2012 08:23:29 AM 706 Views
But of course he did.. fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:13:07 PM 733 Views
I hate to get into these things HousealThor - 29/10/2012 05:45:50 PM 779 Views
I would love for you to be right, because it would solve all our problems, but 0 is the challenge... Shannow - 29/10/2012 07:56:34 PM 721 Views
In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed HousealThor - 29/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 762 Views
Overwhelm Lanfear, not match her. *NM* fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:26:09 PM 378 Views
Truth is, Moiraine was being overly optimistic... Shannow - 29/10/2012 08:39:17 PM 686 Views
You're pathetic... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:20:01 AM 617 Views
The quote isn't specific Sidious - 30/10/2012 08:32:36 AM 737 Views
Its highly specific... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:15:38 PM 568 Views
Yet neither of them are at full potential and at least equal a Forsaken darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:45:24 PM 1226 Views
Honestly! darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 02:07:37 AM 669 Views
Re: In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed Tor - 29/10/2012 09:10:27 PM 669 Views
Lots of people mean perfectly normal distribution when they say it HousealThor - 30/10/2012 05:25:35 PM 621 Views
Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame? TheCrownless - 30/10/2012 12:04:01 AM 807 Views
Re: Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame? Tor - 30/10/2012 09:33:44 AM 738 Views
Are you sure about that? TheCrownless - 30/10/2012 12:03:43 PM 739 Views
Re: Are you sure about that? Tor - 30/10/2012 12:19:34 PM 652 Views
That doesn't seem a coherent narrative to me TheCrownless - 30/10/2012 04:26:25 PM 934 Views
Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 05:16:40 PM 746 Views
Re: Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola TheCrownless - 30/10/2012 05:54:41 PM 638 Views
We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 10:33:55 PM 764 Views
Re: We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers TheCrownless - 31/10/2012 12:30:52 AM 715 Views
A handful of examples are all we have and we have proof that an extremely strong Channeler darius_sedai - 31/10/2012 02:58:57 AM 546 Views
you're confusing 2 things Zaphod - 30/10/2012 04:27:32 AM 799 Views
+1 *NM* Sidious - 30/10/2012 09:17:07 AM 731 Views
Re: you're confusing 2 things Simon - 30/10/2012 09:21:39 AM 724 Views
Not true... Shannow - 30/10/2012 11:49:57 AM 749 Views
One thing HousealThor - 30/10/2012 05:23:17 PM 712 Views
That's the problem. The BC RJ has "built" has a minimum and a maximum value darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 05:48:55 PM 728 Views
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