He never gave us a glimpse of these details, and you're right that he kept things vague, but that doesn't change the fact that he did create this system which has a mathematical basis in which all the channelers her created fit. Did he bend it from time to time in the series? Sure. Did he have characters make ignorant or arrogant comments that contradicted the actual rules? Sure. But that doesn't mean he didn't know. Given what DomA said, he seemed to know to a very specific degree how strong a channeler was. And he also knew about their Talents, strengths in particular flows, etc. For Aes Sedai, he knew how long they were Novice and Accepted, how old they were, and other minor details most authors don't bother with.
Now, the discussion on strength is purely academic. But at the heart of it has to be the few specific points about strength that Jordan made outside the books. All characters can lie or be mistaken. But when Jordan says something, especially when its something others in Team Jordan have confirmed, you can't wish it away. That has to be the first principle on which you base your theoretical list. Every other quote is open to interpretation. I guarantee you if you took a quote from the books and RJ's quote on the bell curve and pointed the contradiction to him, he would say the character in question was mistaken, or that you're ignoring the implications of skill or knowledge.
And that's precisely the approach Darius and I take to coming up with a strength list. And that's why we were both right years ago to insist that gateway size can't be used to compare male and female strength (which is what Shannow was doing). We were also right to insist that you do have to consider effective strength, not raw strength. I can also remember Shannow insisting on wotmania that effective strength was irrelevant because RJ pulled that out of his hat. And now see how the later parts of the series have totally held that up?
You can continue insisting RJ was wrong or confused. But you have no evidence ot back it up. Darius and I, however, have a system that takes all the quotes into account AND fits with what RJ said. And that's got to be the way to do it.
Now, the discussion on strength is purely academic. But at the heart of it has to be the few specific points about strength that Jordan made outside the books. All characters can lie or be mistaken. But when Jordan says something, especially when its something others in Team Jordan have confirmed, you can't wish it away. That has to be the first principle on which you base your theoretical list. Every other quote is open to interpretation. I guarantee you if you took a quote from the books and RJ's quote on the bell curve and pointed the contradiction to him, he would say the character in question was mistaken, or that you're ignoring the implications of skill or knowledge.
And that's precisely the approach Darius and I take to coming up with a strength list. And that's why we were both right years ago to insist that gateway size can't be used to compare male and female strength (which is what Shannow was doing). We were also right to insist that you do have to consider effective strength, not raw strength. I can also remember Shannow insisting on wotmania that effective strength was irrelevant because RJ pulled that out of his hat. And now see how the later parts of the series have totally held that up?
You can continue insisting RJ was wrong or confused. But you have no evidence ot back it up. Darius and I, however, have a system that takes all the quotes into account AND fits with what RJ said. And that's got to be the way to do it.
The Bell Curve revisited
- 29/10/2012 09:44:09 AM
1608 Views
Re: The Bell Curve revisited
- 29/10/2012 10:21:27 AM
981 Views
That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:26:49 AM
1568 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:36:32 AM
961 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:40:27 AM
825 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:42:57 AM
809 Views
Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:45:07 AM
910 Views
Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:49:49 AM
806 Views
Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:56:37 AM
891 Views
It's only as skewed as it seems when you make the assumption that the Forsaken
- 31/10/2012 04:34:11 AM
1130 Views
RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
- 29/10/2012 02:11:19 PM
906 Views
Re: RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
- 29/10/2012 02:37:33 PM
844 Views
there are dozens of reasons for this
- 29/10/2012 08:18:18 PM
858 Views
Re: there are dozens of reasons for this
- 29/10/2012 09:07:35 PM
806 Views
Again I don't argue that genetics play no role
- 30/10/2012 01:57:24 AM
784 Views
Once again just so,we are clear on my stance with Genetics and Strength
- 30/10/2012 03:27:11 PM
810 Views
That the 1000 Novices aren't a random sample of the population?
- 29/10/2012 08:23:47 PM
744 Views
And why would it be biased towards those with lower strength?
- 29/10/2012 09:11:25 PM
758 Views
Absolutely no reason...
- 30/10/2012 01:35:35 AM
853 Views
Re: Absolutely no reason...
- 30/10/2012 06:43:54 AM
762 Views
Only if it was a random sampling. Which this is not.
- 30/10/2012 01:58:34 PM
847 Views
That's exactly the point. I want you to explain why it wasn't random.
- 30/10/2012 02:14:59 PM
774 Views
It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
- 30/10/2012 02:43:03 PM
781 Views
Re: It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
- 30/10/2012 02:47:30 PM
782 Views
Go read a stats text will you?
- 30/10/2012 02:54:16 PM
769 Views
Done
- 31/10/2012 09:34:11 AM
1539 Views
You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
- 10/11/2012 10:14:19 PM
1055 Views
Re: You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
- 11/11/2012 11:37:16 AM
874 Views
Seriously? I went and looked at some statistics books, and you won't even reply?
- 01/11/2012 12:13:49 PM
883 Views
Yes that totally makes sense
- 30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM
893 Views
- 30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM
893 Views
That's not what happened...
- 30/10/2012 02:01:52 PM
839 Views
Doesn't mean RJ applied it to his series
- 30/10/2012 08:23:29 AM
858 Views
But of course he did..
- 30/10/2012 02:13:07 PM
892 Views
I hate to get into these things
- 29/10/2012 05:45:50 PM
928 Views
I would love for you to be right, because it would solve all our problems, but 0 is the challenge...
- 29/10/2012 07:56:34 PM
911 Views
In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
- 29/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
914 Views
Overwhelm Lanfear, not match her. *NM*
- 29/10/2012 08:26:09 PM
484 Views
Truth is, Moiraine was being overly optimistic...
- 29/10/2012 08:39:17 PM
831 Views
You're pathetic...
- 30/10/2012 01:20:01 AM
763 Views
The quote isn't specific
- 30/10/2012 08:32:36 AM
878 Views
Yet neither of them are at full potential and at least equal a Forsaken
- 30/10/2012 03:45:24 PM
1383 Views
Re: In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
- 29/10/2012 09:10:27 PM
830 Views
Lots of people mean perfectly normal distribution when they say it
- 30/10/2012 05:25:35 PM
781 Views
Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
- 30/10/2012 12:04:01 AM
958 Views
Re: Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
- 30/10/2012 09:33:44 AM
889 Views
Are you sure about that?
- 30/10/2012 12:03:43 PM
885 Views
Re: Are you sure about that?
- 30/10/2012 12:19:34 PM
801 Views
That doesn't seem a coherent narrative to me
- 30/10/2012 04:26:25 PM
1122 Views
Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
- 30/10/2012 05:16:40 PM
899 Views
Re: Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
- 30/10/2012 05:54:41 PM
775 Views
We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
- 30/10/2012 10:33:55 PM
915 Views
Re: We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
- 31/10/2012 12:30:52 AM
869 Views
A handful of examples are all we have and we have proof that an extremely strong Channeler
- 31/10/2012 02:58:57 AM
763 Views
you're confusing 2 things
- 30/10/2012 04:27:32 AM
1042 Views
One thing
- 30/10/2012 05:23:17 PM
864 Views
That's the problem. The BC RJ has "built" has a minimum and a maximum value
- 30/10/2012 05:48:55 PM
873 Views
